Transcript - Devolution in 30: Transport strategies for the regions with Maria Machancoses, CEO of Midlands Connect 00:00:13.227 --> 00:00:14.952 Welcome everybody to the 00:00:15.053 --> 00:00:16.076 first installment of 00:00:16.417 --> 00:00:18.382 STEER's election reflection series, 00:00:18.742 --> 00:00:20.006 where we're bringing together 00:00:20.620 --> 00:00:22.080 industry experts for a bit 00:00:22.100 --> 00:00:23.240 of a 30-minute chat, 00:00:23.321 --> 00:00:24.301 a bit of a conversation 00:00:24.361 --> 00:00:25.942 around the impact of 00:00:25.981 --> 00:00:28.082 Labour's agenda across cities, transport, 00:00:28.163 --> 00:00:28.844 infrastructure, 00:00:29.344 --> 00:00:31.044 from what we've heard about so far. 00:00:31.065 --> 00:00:32.484 My name is Simon Statham. 00:00:32.545 --> 00:00:34.625 I'm a director at STEER. 00:00:34.865 --> 00:00:35.405 Just a note, 00:00:35.445 --> 00:00:36.506 you'll be able to find 00:00:36.527 --> 00:00:37.726 recordings of this session 00:00:38.427 --> 00:00:39.628 and all the other sessions 00:00:39.707 --> 00:00:42.408 coming up on our website, steergroup.com. 00:00:43.170 --> 00:00:44.189 It's also worth noting that 00:00:44.210 --> 00:00:45.631 these will be sub-site talks. 00:00:47.051 --> 00:00:48.232 You will be able to use the 00:00:48.313 --> 00:00:49.874 comments section to share 00:00:49.914 --> 00:00:51.235 views and generate a 00:00:51.256 --> 00:00:55.460 conversation with other participants. 00:00:56.179 --> 00:00:57.121 However, unfortunately, 00:00:57.140 --> 00:00:59.283 due to the condensed nature 00:00:59.323 --> 00:00:59.764 of the session, 00:00:59.783 --> 00:01:01.085 it's only about 30 minutes long, 00:01:01.865 --> 00:01:02.665 Maria and I won't 00:01:02.746 --> 00:01:03.587 unfortunately be able to 00:01:03.646 --> 00:01:04.668 answer questions live, 00:01:04.707 --> 00:01:05.489 but we might be able to 00:01:05.528 --> 00:01:06.450 take them away and answer 00:01:06.489 --> 00:01:07.331 them after the session. 00:01:08.686 --> 00:01:09.206 So, 00:01:09.307 --> 00:01:10.569 thank you for joining us today in this 00:01:11.269 --> 00:01:11.891 conversation. 00:01:12.611 --> 00:01:13.793 I'm very grateful to be 00:01:13.832 --> 00:01:15.194 joined by Maria Machinkosis, 00:01:15.275 --> 00:01:16.495 CEO of Midlands Connect. 00:01:17.397 --> 00:01:18.158 For those who don't know, 00:01:18.378 --> 00:01:19.540 Midlands Connect research, 00:01:19.560 --> 00:01:20.460 develop and progress 00:01:20.480 --> 00:01:21.942 transport projects that 00:01:22.003 --> 00:01:24.926 provide biggest possible social, 00:01:25.027 --> 00:01:26.188 economic and environmental 00:01:26.227 --> 00:01:27.228 benefits for the region. 00:01:27.890 --> 00:01:28.010 Now, 00:01:28.030 --> 00:01:29.971 Maria is celebrating 10 years at 00:01:30.010 --> 00:01:30.990 Midlands Connect this year. 00:01:31.870 --> 00:01:32.751 She's been there from the 00:01:32.772 --> 00:01:34.031 very kernel of an idea. 00:01:34.951 --> 00:01:35.972 She set up the partnership 00:01:36.013 --> 00:01:36.753 in the first place. 00:01:37.233 --> 00:01:38.573 She's been very much the one 00:01:38.593 --> 00:01:39.433 that's kept it together 00:01:39.513 --> 00:01:40.933 over that period of time. 00:01:41.694 --> 00:01:42.394 And she's seen that 00:01:42.454 --> 00:01:43.814 organization blossom into a 00:01:43.875 --> 00:01:45.475 really vital strategic 00:01:45.516 --> 00:01:46.736 planning body for the region. 00:01:47.415 --> 00:01:48.257 So welcome, Maria. 00:01:49.677 --> 00:01:50.436 Thank you, Simon. 00:01:50.496 --> 00:01:51.237 It's good to be here. 00:01:51.278 --> 00:01:51.957 It's good to see you. 00:01:52.918 --> 00:01:54.159 Yeah, so full disclosure, 00:01:54.218 --> 00:01:55.879 Maria and I worked together. 00:01:55.938 --> 00:01:57.159 So I was at Midlands Connect 00:01:57.180 --> 00:01:58.521 for about seven of those 10 years. 00:01:59.381 --> 00:02:00.962 And so I've obviously seen 00:02:01.061 --> 00:02:02.643 firsthand the important 00:02:02.662 --> 00:02:04.162 work that she did bringing that region, 00:02:04.283 --> 00:02:05.004 the Midlands region 00:02:05.043 --> 00:02:06.924 together to speak as one voice. 00:02:07.564 --> 00:02:08.604 Not an easy job and Maria 00:02:08.625 --> 00:02:10.246 has done it fantastically. 00:02:10.806 --> 00:02:12.306 Simon, you've been extremely nice. 00:02:12.347 --> 00:02:13.587 You were part of that too. 00:02:16.298 --> 00:02:17.718 You were very part of it and 00:02:17.739 --> 00:02:19.878 you were a really important player. 00:02:19.998 --> 00:02:22.039 You helped a lot in that process. 00:02:22.060 --> 00:02:23.520 So let's give ourselves 00:02:23.740 --> 00:02:24.759 credit to both of us. 00:02:26.060 --> 00:02:29.480 We'll share in that then. 00:02:29.540 --> 00:02:31.622 So maybe as a bit of a nice break, Maria, 00:02:32.301 --> 00:02:33.622 a bit of a kick-off, 00:02:33.701 --> 00:02:34.741 maybe you could reflect on 00:02:34.762 --> 00:02:36.823 those 10 years at Midlands 00:02:36.862 --> 00:02:38.223 Connect and subnational 00:02:38.242 --> 00:02:39.383 transport bodies in general. 00:02:39.823 --> 00:02:41.783 So what do we think was the 00:02:41.804 --> 00:02:43.063 biggest change from then to now? 00:02:45.489 --> 00:02:45.788 You know, 00:02:46.889 --> 00:02:48.290 when you told me we were doing 00:02:48.330 --> 00:02:49.391 this session, I thought, okay, 00:02:49.451 --> 00:02:51.092 what has been the big change? 00:02:51.152 --> 00:02:53.555 And when I first was asked 00:02:53.914 --> 00:02:56.356 to think about Midlands Connect, 00:02:56.417 --> 00:02:58.777 and hopefully people will relate to this, 00:02:58.858 --> 00:02:59.919 there was a massive thing 00:02:59.938 --> 00:03:00.840 going on in the North. 00:03:01.706 --> 00:03:03.568 At that time, I think it was Osborne, 00:03:03.868 --> 00:03:05.169 George Osborne, 00:03:05.189 --> 00:03:06.972 and he was really making a 00:03:07.012 --> 00:03:08.013 big difference in terms of 00:03:08.413 --> 00:03:10.115 creating a voice for the North, you know, 00:03:10.155 --> 00:03:12.396 the North who never seemed to get, 00:03:13.356 --> 00:03:16.259 you know, the investment that it deserves, 00:03:16.300 --> 00:03:17.221 that it was abandoned, 00:03:17.241 --> 00:03:18.241 nobody thought about it. 00:03:18.282 --> 00:03:19.223 And the whole Northern 00:03:19.282 --> 00:03:21.223 powerhouse sort of phenomena came in. 00:03:22.205 --> 00:03:22.925 And at that time, 00:03:23.359 --> 00:03:24.659 their regional development 00:03:24.759 --> 00:03:26.441 agencies were also on the way out, 00:03:26.520 --> 00:03:27.300 if not already. 00:03:28.140 --> 00:03:31.462 So there was this tension 00:03:31.502 --> 00:03:32.403 going on in the Midlands. 00:03:32.463 --> 00:03:34.223 We didn't know how to go about that, 00:03:34.324 --> 00:03:34.625 you know, 00:03:34.645 --> 00:03:36.645 because in the Midlands you had 00:03:36.725 --> 00:03:38.026 the West and these Midlands 00:03:38.526 --> 00:03:39.787 and you have this almighty 00:03:39.826 --> 00:03:41.888 North shouting and making a 00:03:41.907 --> 00:03:44.149 big point about how important, 00:03:44.389 --> 00:03:45.009 quite rightly, 00:03:45.509 --> 00:03:47.251 the North was for the UK 00:03:47.510 --> 00:03:49.252 and that they kept 00:03:49.602 --> 00:03:50.984 been felt like government 00:03:51.024 --> 00:03:52.305 whitehall were not looking 00:03:52.324 --> 00:03:53.486 they were not listening to 00:03:53.507 --> 00:03:56.150 the north so for when I was 00:03:56.189 --> 00:03:58.092 told you know we need to do 00:03:58.112 --> 00:03:59.054 a similar thing well come 00:03:59.093 --> 00:04:00.336 on can we not do something 00:04:00.376 --> 00:04:01.736 similar so we can create a 00:04:01.776 --> 00:04:02.679 voice for the midlands 00:04:04.139 --> 00:04:06.002 those those kind of principles of 00:04:06.704 --> 00:04:09.745 Where does the Midlands 00:04:09.784 --> 00:04:11.004 feature in government thinking? 00:04:11.104 --> 00:04:12.444 Where are those decisions in 00:04:12.465 --> 00:04:13.466 terms of big investment 00:04:14.066 --> 00:04:16.466 priorities featuring in 00:04:16.586 --> 00:04:19.007 ministers and in number 10, in number 11, 00:04:19.007 --> 00:04:19.567 in treasury? 00:04:20.666 --> 00:04:21.827 That's what really made 00:04:21.908 --> 00:04:22.887 Midlands going to happen. 00:04:22.927 --> 00:04:24.288 The leaders saying we really 00:04:24.327 --> 00:04:26.048 need to come together and 00:04:26.189 --> 00:04:27.468 speak with one voice. 00:04:28.750 --> 00:04:29.850 It's interesting how 00:04:29.930 --> 00:04:31.574 throughout the last 10 years, 00:04:32.235 --> 00:04:34.858 this idea of why Hull and 00:04:34.937 --> 00:04:36.439 the UK remains hugely 00:04:36.480 --> 00:04:38.221 centralised and we're now 00:04:38.281 --> 00:04:39.663 moving into a more 00:04:40.524 --> 00:04:42.208 supportive framework for 00:04:42.247 --> 00:04:44.430 the evolution and going and 00:04:44.451 --> 00:04:45.312 zooming into Hull. 00:04:45.851 --> 00:04:47.052 combined authorities and the 00:04:47.093 --> 00:04:47.973 rise of the combined 00:04:47.994 --> 00:04:49.634 authorities I think has 00:04:49.654 --> 00:04:51.055 been fantastic but 00:04:51.156 --> 00:04:52.737 obviously always makes you 00:04:52.797 --> 00:04:54.798 think therefore where does 00:04:54.838 --> 00:04:56.038 the north from the Midlands 00:04:57.100 --> 00:04:58.040 and the work that we were 00:04:58.060 --> 00:04:59.221 doing at that strategic 00:04:59.240 --> 00:05:00.401 level feature with all of 00:05:00.442 --> 00:05:02.283 this so there's always been 00:05:02.343 --> 00:05:03.884 a change that you know as 00:05:03.985 --> 00:05:06.245 Midlands Connect I think we 00:05:06.305 --> 00:05:07.627 have been very good at 00:05:07.747 --> 00:05:09.288 resilient into adapting 00:05:09.327 --> 00:05:11.350 those to those new landscapes and 00:05:11.788 --> 00:05:13.110 the views of how government 00:05:13.129 --> 00:05:15.151 wants to engage and have 00:05:15.190 --> 00:05:16.812 conversations and negotiate 00:05:17.672 --> 00:05:19.093 with different parts of the country. 00:05:19.192 --> 00:05:20.814 So that's probably what's 00:05:20.973 --> 00:05:23.235 kept me going and has made 00:05:23.254 --> 00:05:24.235 Midlands Connect, I think, 00:05:24.755 --> 00:05:25.877 the organisation that it is. 00:05:25.916 --> 00:05:28.418 That ability for leaders to 00:05:28.458 --> 00:05:30.839 start always willing to collaborate, 00:05:30.939 --> 00:05:32.781 no matter what happens at local level, 00:05:33.281 --> 00:05:34.262 to engage with government. 00:05:35.062 --> 00:05:35.461 Yeah, 00:05:35.562 --> 00:05:37.442 I remember that there was never a 00:05:37.483 --> 00:05:38.564 steady state at Midlands 00:05:38.584 --> 00:05:39.685 Connect when I was there. 00:05:40.619 --> 00:05:42.560 There was never a period where you thought, 00:05:42.579 --> 00:05:43.959 yeah, we know what we're doing now, 00:05:44.000 --> 00:05:44.839 we can just carry on. 00:05:47.300 --> 00:05:49.762 The landscape changed politically. 00:05:51.942 --> 00:05:52.903 What government and the 00:05:52.942 --> 00:05:54.642 region were asking of the 00:05:54.682 --> 00:05:55.463 subnational transport 00:05:55.504 --> 00:05:56.824 bodies was constantly evolving, 00:05:56.863 --> 00:05:57.644 constantly changing. 00:05:58.064 --> 00:05:58.985 They're really interesting times. 00:06:00.956 --> 00:06:03.139 So let's get on to the meat, I suppose, 00:06:03.199 --> 00:06:04.540 of why we're really here. 00:06:05.380 --> 00:06:07.482 So I'll start off with 00:06:07.942 --> 00:06:09.363 something that I noticed in 00:06:09.444 --> 00:06:10.805 the Labour's manifesto. 00:06:11.464 --> 00:06:14.548 So tucked away in the manifesto on page 34, 00:06:14.548 --> 00:06:16.629 for those who are particularly interested, 00:06:17.170 --> 00:06:18.531 there's a kind of a little 00:06:18.571 --> 00:06:19.932 throwaway line where they 00:06:19.971 --> 00:06:21.673 say they want to develop a 00:06:21.713 --> 00:06:23.454 long term strategy for transport. 00:06:24.348 --> 00:06:25.870 Now, I remember, again, 00:06:25.930 --> 00:06:27.230 when we were working together, 00:06:27.250 --> 00:06:29.132 there was quite a lot of 00:06:29.192 --> 00:06:30.452 talk within subnational 00:06:30.473 --> 00:06:31.692 transport bodies about the 00:06:31.773 --> 00:06:35.394 need for a national transport strategy. 00:06:35.555 --> 00:06:38.237 There were different views of that. 00:06:38.836 --> 00:06:40.677 I remember I was a bit 00:06:40.718 --> 00:06:42.079 skeptical that we did need it. 00:06:42.680 --> 00:06:43.480 There were others in 00:06:43.540 --> 00:06:44.339 subnational transport 00:06:44.360 --> 00:06:45.261 bodies that were really 00:06:45.440 --> 00:06:48.603 adamant that it was vitally important. 00:06:49.848 --> 00:06:51.250 So do you think that kind of 00:06:51.269 --> 00:06:52.531 little chuck away one line, 00:06:52.550 --> 00:06:53.872 have you heard anything more? 00:06:53.932 --> 00:06:55.252 Do you think that is the 00:06:55.533 --> 00:06:57.314 much fabled national transport strategy? 00:06:58.434 --> 00:06:59.975 I personally think it's a good thing. 00:07:00.475 --> 00:07:02.357 It's how you go about it that matters. 00:07:02.516 --> 00:07:04.937 And, you know, as everybody who knows this, 00:07:04.997 --> 00:07:05.899 a national transport body 00:07:05.939 --> 00:07:07.740 is the number one mandate 00:07:07.779 --> 00:07:08.699 from government was to 00:07:08.740 --> 00:07:09.721 develop a transport 00:07:09.740 --> 00:07:10.781 strategy for the region, 00:07:10.821 --> 00:07:12.601 for the area that they serve. 00:07:12.641 --> 00:07:14.524 So when this whole idea of a 00:07:14.564 --> 00:07:16.785 national transport strategy came in, yes, 00:07:16.805 --> 00:07:16.985 it worked. 00:07:17.375 --> 00:07:18.735 it would be very easy for us 00:07:18.935 --> 00:07:19.716 in STBs to say, 00:07:19.755 --> 00:07:22.398 just glue the seven together and presto, 00:07:22.437 --> 00:07:23.778 you've got a national strategy. 00:07:23.858 --> 00:07:25.978 That would be a very straightforward thing, 00:07:26.019 --> 00:07:26.740 wouldn't it? 00:07:27.139 --> 00:07:28.401 But I don't think so. 00:07:28.480 --> 00:07:28.781 I think... 00:07:29.716 --> 00:07:31.858 uh personally this country 00:07:31.939 --> 00:07:33.199 as a country you know you 00:07:33.240 --> 00:07:34.540 got scotland has got a 00:07:34.560 --> 00:07:35.641 transport for scotland 00:07:36.161 --> 00:07:37.463 massive strategy worth 00:07:37.502 --> 00:07:38.744 looking at actually for 00:07:38.783 --> 00:07:39.745 those who have not seen it 00:07:40.305 --> 00:07:42.107 um the same in what england 00:07:42.187 --> 00:07:44.007 itself hasn't got one and 00:07:44.148 --> 00:07:46.269 uh businesses uh businesses 00:07:46.290 --> 00:07:47.951 because we in transport 00:07:47.990 --> 00:07:48.992 always think well we know 00:07:49.052 --> 00:07:50.973 how to go about things but 00:07:51.113 --> 00:07:52.334 when you when you're trying 00:07:52.374 --> 00:07:55.317 to tell the direction of travel of policy 00:07:55.896 --> 00:07:56.978 for our country in terms of 00:07:57.017 --> 00:07:58.338 where is it going to invest, 00:07:58.377 --> 00:07:59.098 where is it going to, 00:08:01.259 --> 00:08:03.040 what kind of technology is going to back, 00:08:03.281 --> 00:08:04.442 what type of activities 00:08:04.461 --> 00:08:06.362 you're going to see in the next 10, 00:08:06.362 --> 00:08:08.564 never mind 5, 10 years, 10, 15, 20 years, 00:08:08.584 --> 00:08:10.404 because that's the sort of 00:08:10.464 --> 00:08:12.206 thing that businesses need. 00:08:13.165 --> 00:08:14.127 And we need to think about 00:08:14.166 --> 00:08:15.668 movements for the nation, 00:08:15.728 --> 00:08:16.788 not just for one area. 00:08:17.668 --> 00:08:18.428 So, you know, 00:08:18.769 --> 00:08:19.889 we need to really embrace the 00:08:19.930 --> 00:08:21.670 multimodal and integrated 00:08:21.711 --> 00:08:23.411 transport for the whole country 00:08:23.851 --> 00:08:25.773 where everybody knows where we're going, 00:08:25.812 --> 00:08:26.572 where's the direction of 00:08:26.612 --> 00:08:27.833 travel in terms of policy, 00:08:28.072 --> 00:08:30.793 in terms of technology, and set it clear. 00:08:30.934 --> 00:08:32.573 It doesn't have to be granular. 00:08:32.634 --> 00:08:34.514 I think the secret is don't 00:08:34.534 --> 00:08:36.414 make it too specific and 00:08:36.455 --> 00:08:37.855 don't do a blanket approach. 00:08:38.615 --> 00:08:40.775 And that's hopefully where STBs can help. 00:08:41.356 --> 00:08:41.596 You know, 00:08:41.616 --> 00:08:42.956 you set the direction of travel 00:08:42.996 --> 00:08:44.317 and the STBs and the local 00:08:44.356 --> 00:08:46.518 authorities can then start 00:08:46.538 --> 00:08:47.337 to implement it. 00:08:48.298 --> 00:08:50.259 Yeah, I mean, I've definitely... 00:08:51.072 --> 00:08:52.793 warm to the idea of a need, 00:08:52.913 --> 00:08:54.134 but just playing devil's 00:08:54.193 --> 00:08:55.514 advocate for a minute. 00:08:55.995 --> 00:08:56.176 You know, 00:08:56.775 --> 00:08:58.856 there are lots of strategies and 00:08:58.898 --> 00:09:00.578 plans and so on already in place. 00:09:00.619 --> 00:09:01.639 We've obviously got the 00:09:01.678 --> 00:09:03.660 decarbonisation plan, 00:09:04.020 --> 00:09:05.341 transport decarbonisation plan. 00:09:05.361 --> 00:09:06.643 We've got bus back better. 00:09:06.722 --> 00:09:07.764 We've got national 00:09:07.783 --> 00:09:08.844 infrastructure strategy. 00:09:08.924 --> 00:09:09.605 As you mentioned, 00:09:09.945 --> 00:09:10.846 we've now got seven 00:09:11.025 --> 00:09:11.927 subnational transport 00:09:11.947 --> 00:09:13.467 bodies with regional strategies. 00:09:13.908 --> 00:09:14.928 We've got mayoral combined 00:09:14.969 --> 00:09:16.529 authorities that have got strategies. 00:09:17.009 --> 00:09:19.432 So where does a national 00:09:19.471 --> 00:09:20.793 transport strategy fit in 00:09:21.033 --> 00:09:23.615 if that's where Labour want to go? 00:09:23.956 --> 00:09:25.157 It's a great question, Simon, 00:09:25.177 --> 00:09:26.336 because there's two things 00:09:26.376 --> 00:09:27.278 we need to consider here. 00:09:27.378 --> 00:09:29.539 It's what weight will they carry? 00:09:31.981 --> 00:09:33.503 So back to your initial point. 00:09:34.215 --> 00:09:35.456 You at the moment have got a 00:09:35.517 --> 00:09:37.961 road investment strategy 00:09:38.100 --> 00:09:39.101 from national highways. 00:09:39.162 --> 00:09:41.184 Those are five-year funded programs. 00:09:41.846 --> 00:09:43.308 Everybody knows what's going to happen. 00:09:43.589 --> 00:09:44.210 They stick to it. 00:09:44.590 --> 00:09:47.094 But the railways happen elsewhere. 00:09:47.173 --> 00:09:48.135 We don't know, actually. 00:09:48.176 --> 00:09:49.317 That's been an area that... 00:09:49.898 --> 00:09:50.818 you know between you and I 00:09:50.839 --> 00:09:51.539 has been always great 00:09:51.580 --> 00:09:54.022 hasn't it to know and to 00:09:54.081 --> 00:09:55.403 see the pipeline of railway 00:09:55.464 --> 00:09:56.404 investment has always been 00:09:56.424 --> 00:09:58.947 tricky um but therefore how 00:09:58.966 --> 00:10:00.048 they both combine how do 00:10:00.087 --> 00:10:01.208 they work together that 00:10:01.269 --> 00:10:02.530 integration multimodal 00:10:02.591 --> 00:10:03.532 approach to a transport 00:10:03.552 --> 00:10:04.352 network is just so 00:10:04.393 --> 00:10:06.475 difficult to to to combine 00:10:06.495 --> 00:10:08.316 and then with transport you 00:10:08.336 --> 00:10:09.878 go a whole energy sort of 00:10:09.918 --> 00:10:10.979 debate now I know you want 00:10:10.999 --> 00:10:12.421 to decarbonize how it all 00:10:12.480 --> 00:10:13.461 fits with energy 00:10:14.341 --> 00:10:15.202 So you're right, 00:10:15.222 --> 00:10:16.303 there are different strategies. 00:10:17.264 --> 00:10:17.663 And in fact, 00:10:17.684 --> 00:10:18.705 the one thing we don't mention 00:10:18.745 --> 00:10:19.806 is that they also mentioned 00:10:19.826 --> 00:10:21.147 they need labor are 00:10:21.187 --> 00:10:22.447 introducing a 10 year 00:10:22.908 --> 00:10:23.889 infrastructure plan. 00:10:24.749 --> 00:10:24.908 Yeah. 00:10:25.490 --> 00:10:28.010 So how all of this is going 00:10:28.030 --> 00:10:30.072 to come and come together 00:10:30.092 --> 00:10:32.614 is going to be very, very interesting. 00:10:32.894 --> 00:10:33.315 And I guess. 00:10:35.453 --> 00:10:36.594 the most important thing 00:10:36.653 --> 00:10:38.475 here is what weight will it have? 00:10:38.534 --> 00:10:39.414 Will it have a funding 00:10:39.455 --> 00:10:40.836 programme associated with it? 00:10:41.576 --> 00:10:44.096 Or is it just a grand vision 00:10:44.216 --> 00:10:45.597 for future direction of 00:10:45.658 --> 00:10:46.878 travel in this country? 00:10:48.158 --> 00:10:50.860 Will it be messed about and 00:10:51.720 --> 00:10:52.801 any minister can come in 00:10:52.841 --> 00:10:54.181 later and change his mind? 00:10:54.201 --> 00:10:57.062 Because that's the problem that, 00:10:57.422 --> 00:10:58.143 hopefully you agree, 00:10:58.182 --> 00:10:59.623 we have been experiencing for years. 00:10:59.863 --> 00:11:01.344 You think there's a pipeline, 00:11:01.384 --> 00:11:01.984 you think there's a 00:11:02.004 --> 00:11:03.684 commitment and it's changed. 00:11:05.802 --> 00:11:06.643 Yeah, 00:11:06.763 --> 00:11:08.283 we did go through many secretaries of 00:11:08.403 --> 00:11:12.447 state when we were working together. 00:11:12.706 --> 00:11:14.207 I don't think they left because of us, 00:11:14.288 --> 00:11:17.191 but you never know. 00:11:17.431 --> 00:11:18.652 So you also mentioned 00:11:18.692 --> 00:11:21.153 earlier that one way of 00:11:21.192 --> 00:11:22.073 looking at a national 00:11:22.094 --> 00:11:23.254 transport strategy is that 00:11:23.294 --> 00:11:24.775 we have seven regional strategies, 00:11:24.816 --> 00:11:25.976 let's just stitch them together. 00:11:26.557 --> 00:11:29.320 So that's probably not that practical, 00:11:29.480 --> 00:11:29.659 but... 00:11:33.014 --> 00:11:35.658 What role do you want? 00:11:35.738 --> 00:11:36.859 What role does Midlands 00:11:36.899 --> 00:11:39.261 Connect want or need in that work? 00:11:39.322 --> 00:11:39.522 You know, 00:11:39.562 --> 00:11:41.144 you don't want it to happen to you, 00:11:41.203 --> 00:11:42.605 do you? 00:11:43.025 --> 00:11:43.947 You want to be part of that 00:11:44.006 --> 00:11:46.149 national transport strategy. 00:11:46.629 --> 00:11:48.692 How do you think you can 00:11:48.753 --> 00:11:49.774 convince the ministers to 00:11:49.833 --> 00:11:50.855 kind of bring subnational 00:11:50.875 --> 00:11:52.456 transport bodies into the tent on that? 00:11:54.494 --> 00:11:57.355 So it's it's it's going to 00:11:57.375 --> 00:11:58.817 be that's going to be the 00:11:58.856 --> 00:12:00.359 big million question this year. 00:12:01.458 --> 00:12:01.919 As I said, 00:12:01.980 --> 00:12:04.282 because there's been there's one 00:12:04.322 --> 00:12:06.043 thing that Labour, the new government, 00:12:06.082 --> 00:12:07.063 have introduced is a 00:12:07.083 --> 00:12:08.745 massive emphasis on devolution. 00:12:09.306 --> 00:12:10.606 And we think it's a good thing. 00:12:11.427 --> 00:12:14.570 But it's where do they see 00:12:14.649 --> 00:12:16.091 the SDVs helping? 00:12:16.629 --> 00:12:18.171 in terms of balancing 00:12:18.191 --> 00:12:19.511 between national and local, 00:12:20.091 --> 00:12:21.793 it's going to be very, very important. 00:12:21.832 --> 00:12:23.974 And the STBs are, I think, 00:12:24.214 --> 00:12:25.154 the point that we're making 00:12:25.294 --> 00:12:26.634 is you cannot go from 00:12:26.715 --> 00:12:29.096 central to local in that, you know, 00:12:29.576 --> 00:12:30.297 in that manner. 00:12:30.736 --> 00:12:32.477 We work with local authorities, 00:12:32.518 --> 00:12:33.578 we work with combined 00:12:33.599 --> 00:12:34.578 authorities and they start 00:12:34.599 --> 00:12:35.600 to create a layer. 00:12:36.039 --> 00:12:38.140 That's what we call subnational, I guess, 00:12:38.240 --> 00:12:40.422 which, although I do not like the name, 00:12:40.503 --> 00:12:41.462 it kind of makes sense 00:12:42.363 --> 00:12:45.085 because it's when all the local, 00:12:45.615 --> 00:12:46.436 thinking and all the 00:12:46.456 --> 00:12:48.198 transport starts to happen 00:12:48.440 --> 00:12:49.922 combined and you start to 00:12:49.961 --> 00:12:52.245 integrate it and presto, 00:12:52.865 --> 00:12:54.208 you can start negotiating 00:12:54.288 --> 00:12:55.389 what you want the national 00:12:55.471 --> 00:12:58.294 network to do and to do it 00:12:58.375 --> 00:12:59.876 in a place-based approach 00:12:59.897 --> 00:13:00.619 rather than just 00:13:01.099 --> 00:13:02.639 a network approach, 00:13:02.720 --> 00:13:04.541 which is perhaps the 00:13:04.581 --> 00:13:06.142 biggest added value that we 00:13:06.182 --> 00:13:07.202 bring to our work. 00:13:07.822 --> 00:13:09.364 We don't think of the 00:13:09.403 --> 00:13:11.644 railways as a railway kit. 00:13:12.245 --> 00:13:13.365 We think of it with a 00:13:13.405 --> 00:13:15.447 purpose to support housing 00:13:15.506 --> 00:13:16.587 growth and so on. 00:13:16.648 --> 00:13:22.051 So we're hoping that this 00:13:22.071 --> 00:13:22.850 government in particular 00:13:22.870 --> 00:13:23.871 will see the benefit of 00:13:23.932 --> 00:13:27.293 that pan-regional approach 00:13:27.433 --> 00:13:29.075 to informing national thinking. 00:13:31.018 --> 00:13:31.298 Very good. 00:13:31.337 --> 00:13:31.899 Very interesting. 00:13:31.938 --> 00:13:32.379 Like you say, 00:13:33.000 --> 00:13:34.761 exciting times for STBs to be 00:13:35.221 --> 00:13:36.043 potentially involved in 00:13:36.082 --> 00:13:36.703 that kind of work. 00:13:37.845 --> 00:13:39.265 So let's go from kind of 00:13:39.285 --> 00:13:41.447 national to a bit more local now. 00:13:42.349 --> 00:13:42.909 The other thing that 00:13:42.970 --> 00:13:44.551 Labour's been talking about 00:13:44.630 --> 00:13:47.333 quite a lot is mentioned in the manifesto, 00:13:47.354 --> 00:13:48.154 but they've also talked 00:13:48.195 --> 00:13:49.735 about it since they've come 00:13:49.755 --> 00:13:50.897 to power in the last few weeks, 00:13:50.996 --> 00:13:53.119 is kind of localised devolution. 00:13:54.380 --> 00:13:55.902 We've had all the existing 00:13:55.922 --> 00:13:57.143 mayors taking selfies on 00:13:57.543 --> 00:13:58.943 the steps of number 10. 00:13:58.943 --> 00:14:02.346 So it's obviously prominent 00:14:02.587 --> 00:14:07.230 in Labour's vision for how to devolve. 00:14:07.692 --> 00:14:08.812 They want more mayoral 00:14:08.852 --> 00:14:09.614 combined authorities. 00:14:09.634 --> 00:14:11.634 They want more mayors to come forward. 00:14:11.695 --> 00:14:13.336 They want to devolve power down to... 00:14:15.025 --> 00:14:15.927 and not necessarily down to 00:14:16.006 --> 00:14:16.807 combined authorities, 00:14:16.846 --> 00:14:18.307 to individual authorities as well. 00:14:18.347 --> 00:14:19.869 They're talking about giving 00:14:20.009 --> 00:14:23.211 powers to any local 00:14:23.250 --> 00:14:24.251 authority to run their own 00:14:24.272 --> 00:14:26.212 bus services if they want to, for example, 00:14:26.572 --> 00:14:28.875 and not just in combined authorities. 00:14:29.644 --> 00:14:31.785 So where does, 00:14:31.806 --> 00:14:33.287 in this kind of expanding 00:14:33.326 --> 00:14:34.888 kind of devolution, evolution, 00:14:35.868 --> 00:14:37.489 where does Midlands Connect fit in? 00:14:37.548 --> 00:14:38.509 Where do you fit in now? 00:14:38.809 --> 00:14:39.890 How do you work with, I mean, 00:14:39.910 --> 00:14:40.311 you've only got, 00:14:40.610 --> 00:14:41.551 you've been working with 00:14:41.671 --> 00:14:43.032 one mayor in particular in 00:14:43.052 --> 00:14:43.653 the West Midlands, 00:14:43.712 --> 00:14:44.993 but now you've got a new 00:14:45.033 --> 00:14:46.014 mayor coming forward in the 00:14:46.073 --> 00:14:47.173 East Midlands and another 00:14:47.234 --> 00:14:48.735 one potentially in 00:14:48.794 --> 00:14:50.035 Lincolnshire coming forward. 00:14:50.655 --> 00:14:51.856 How do you fit in at the moment? 00:14:51.917 --> 00:14:53.457 How do you work with those mayors? 00:14:54.938 --> 00:14:55.119 Well, 00:14:56.567 --> 00:14:58.128 We are being extremely 00:14:58.327 --> 00:14:59.970 pleased with the arrival of 00:15:00.110 --> 00:15:01.490 these two mayors in particular. 00:15:02.491 --> 00:15:03.673 We don't have a mayor in Lincolnshire, 00:15:03.692 --> 00:15:04.432 as you said, yet. 00:15:04.933 --> 00:15:06.815 But that's the first 00:15:07.035 --> 00:15:08.056 question everybody asks, 00:15:08.115 --> 00:15:10.938 is that why we still need a 00:15:10.979 --> 00:15:11.678 Midlands Connect? 00:15:12.679 --> 00:15:14.422 We were totally reassured 00:15:14.461 --> 00:15:15.563 with how the mares 00:15:15.644 --> 00:15:17.765 understand that devolution 00:15:17.826 --> 00:15:19.509 is great and their laser 00:15:19.548 --> 00:15:21.791 focus on making sure those 00:15:21.850 --> 00:15:24.134 devol deals materialise as 00:15:24.214 --> 00:15:25.095 quickly as possible. 00:15:25.275 --> 00:15:26.657 What I like about this 00:15:26.716 --> 00:15:27.999 particular mares is that 00:15:28.198 --> 00:15:29.841 huge appetite to deliver as 00:15:29.880 --> 00:15:31.143 soon as possible for the people. 00:15:31.562 --> 00:15:34.485 rather than keep talking and promising. 00:15:34.505 --> 00:15:37.087 I've seen a different energy this year. 00:15:37.148 --> 00:15:39.691 This is about I really need 00:15:39.711 --> 00:15:40.571 to make a difference in the 00:15:40.611 --> 00:15:41.371 next four years. 00:15:42.472 --> 00:15:43.774 Let's just concentrate on 00:15:44.735 --> 00:15:46.035 what can we do that really 00:15:46.076 --> 00:15:47.857 has a positive impact 00:15:47.937 --> 00:15:49.940 quickly on people's lives and so on. 00:15:50.399 --> 00:15:50.561 So 00:15:51.899 --> 00:15:53.341 It was quite reassuring in 00:15:53.402 --> 00:15:54.462 that way because they 00:15:54.543 --> 00:15:56.225 genuinely understand that 00:15:56.245 --> 00:15:58.086 they've got an economic geography, 00:15:59.828 --> 00:16:01.289 an area where they want to invest, 00:16:02.312 --> 00:16:05.174 inclusion, placemaking, and local buses, 00:16:05.215 --> 00:16:05.735 for instance, 00:16:05.794 --> 00:16:07.256 can have a phenomenal role 00:16:07.317 --> 00:16:08.477 and transformational role 00:16:08.557 --> 00:16:09.759 if they're given the right tools. 00:16:10.318 --> 00:16:12.159 to really improve how people 00:16:12.200 --> 00:16:13.821 can get to jobs, to health, 00:16:13.961 --> 00:16:15.782 to all the total places. 00:16:16.903 --> 00:16:18.943 But they do understand that 00:16:19.124 --> 00:16:20.565 they cannot be parochial 00:16:20.725 --> 00:16:22.206 and they need to understand 00:16:22.245 --> 00:16:23.427 that for those combined 00:16:23.506 --> 00:16:24.888 authority areas to be 00:16:25.408 --> 00:16:27.929 competitive and thrive in a 00:16:27.990 --> 00:16:30.412 bigger national and international arena, 00:16:30.851 --> 00:16:31.652 they do need 00:16:32.993 --> 00:16:34.874 those strategic connections 00:16:34.894 --> 00:16:38.037 that a strategic um agenda 00:16:38.116 --> 00:16:39.256 with how they collaborate 00:16:39.297 --> 00:16:40.577 with others around them and 00:16:40.638 --> 00:16:41.658 that in fact businesses 00:16:41.698 --> 00:16:42.620 don't really acknowledge 00:16:43.179 --> 00:16:44.620 those geographies or those 00:16:44.841 --> 00:16:46.743 those boundaries so um I've 00:16:46.763 --> 00:16:48.724 been so far I have to say 00:16:49.144 --> 00:16:50.445 extremely happy with how 00:16:50.485 --> 00:16:52.005 our mayors have gone about 00:16:52.466 --> 00:16:53.626 midlands connect it's 00:16:53.667 --> 00:16:54.748 really important we want to 00:16:54.788 --> 00:16:55.928 be part of this kind of thing 00:17:00.201 --> 00:17:00.402 Yeah, 00:17:01.043 --> 00:17:02.803 I remember we did have some very 00:17:03.104 --> 00:17:04.964 useful collaborations on 00:17:05.065 --> 00:17:06.906 individual projects, 00:17:06.946 --> 00:17:08.367 particularly where they kind of aligned, 00:17:08.488 --> 00:17:09.868 you know, where our priorities aligned. 00:17:10.429 --> 00:17:11.910 And that did work really, really well. 00:17:12.750 --> 00:17:12.830 And 00:17:13.393 --> 00:17:16.055 So on that, 00:17:16.115 --> 00:17:17.256 I'll give you credit because 00:17:17.615 --> 00:17:18.957 the one thing that you 00:17:19.017 --> 00:17:20.137 brought into Midlands 00:17:20.178 --> 00:17:21.880 Connect is this concept of corridors, 00:17:22.680 --> 00:17:23.361 if you remember. 00:17:24.582 --> 00:17:26.282 And those corridors were 00:17:26.423 --> 00:17:27.824 well beyond boundaries of 00:17:27.903 --> 00:17:28.944 any local authority. 00:17:29.484 --> 00:17:31.747 And all of them were talking about them, 00:17:31.807 --> 00:17:32.167 weren't they? 00:17:32.188 --> 00:17:32.988 If you think about it, 00:17:33.028 --> 00:17:34.028 they were all trying to get 00:17:34.068 --> 00:17:35.009 those businesses to work. 00:17:35.529 --> 00:17:37.692 to invest in those corridors and so on. 00:17:37.771 --> 00:17:39.093 So this is what I think 00:17:39.133 --> 00:17:40.733 that's the added value that we bring. 00:17:40.914 --> 00:17:42.615 We make people realise that 00:17:42.655 --> 00:17:43.817 when it comes to transport, 00:17:44.436 --> 00:17:45.637 you've got to understand 00:17:45.718 --> 00:17:47.859 movements and the trends 00:17:47.960 --> 00:17:50.762 and where people want to go and so on. 00:17:50.863 --> 00:17:55.586 So I'm hoping that that 00:17:55.666 --> 00:17:57.048 appetite for strategic 00:17:57.107 --> 00:17:58.489 conversations will still happen. 00:18:00.419 --> 00:18:02.201 And again, 00:18:02.240 --> 00:18:04.803 with Labour concentrating or 00:18:04.843 --> 00:18:05.503 making quite a lot of 00:18:05.544 --> 00:18:06.684 noises around devolution 00:18:06.724 --> 00:18:08.125 and kind of cascading 00:18:08.165 --> 00:18:09.247 powers down and so on, 00:18:09.267 --> 00:18:10.548 is Midlands Connect going 00:18:10.567 --> 00:18:12.589 to be after a slice of that Devo pie? 00:18:13.290 --> 00:18:15.452 What's your ambition going 00:18:15.492 --> 00:18:16.252 on into the future? 00:18:16.272 --> 00:18:18.315 A really nice way to ask a very, 00:18:18.375 --> 00:18:19.997 very difficult question, Simon. 00:18:20.057 --> 00:18:22.199 So it is, it's... 00:18:24.065 --> 00:18:27.970 At the moment, that's my personal view, 00:18:28.391 --> 00:18:29.613 government is doing really 00:18:29.653 --> 00:18:31.895 well in trying to bring a lot of 00:18:34.491 --> 00:18:36.732 emphasis and pace around the 00:18:36.772 --> 00:18:38.093 local devolution agenda. 00:18:38.153 --> 00:18:40.493 I think you saw even the 00:18:40.554 --> 00:18:41.594 Deputy Prime Minister 00:18:42.114 --> 00:18:43.295 reaching out to all local 00:18:43.335 --> 00:18:44.095 authorities and said, 00:18:44.194 --> 00:18:45.394 if you want to be part of 00:18:45.434 --> 00:18:48.395 this devolution agenda, apply for it. 00:18:48.435 --> 00:18:50.656 We are ready to give it to you. 00:18:52.096 --> 00:18:53.157 Then there's also the whole 00:18:53.238 --> 00:18:54.538 bus reform on the bill. 00:18:55.298 --> 00:18:56.598 There's a lot of activities 00:18:56.659 --> 00:18:57.638 in there in government, 00:18:58.558 --> 00:19:01.160 including the new infrastructure body, 00:19:02.097 --> 00:19:03.219 the appetite for greater 00:19:03.239 --> 00:19:04.720 devolution is going to be interesting. 00:19:04.960 --> 00:19:06.161 And whether they want to do 00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:08.061 it at this level, 00:19:09.482 --> 00:19:11.163 it's something that we're 00:19:11.183 --> 00:19:12.045 going to have to obviously 00:19:12.065 --> 00:19:13.885 engage because you don't 00:19:13.925 --> 00:19:14.906 know what the government's 00:19:14.946 --> 00:19:16.488 thinking is around this at the moment. 00:19:17.509 --> 00:19:18.568 But, yeah, 00:19:18.608 --> 00:19:20.210 from a Midlands Connect perspective, 00:19:21.090 --> 00:19:23.071 we want to make sure that 00:19:23.251 --> 00:19:24.373 our local authorities get 00:19:24.432 --> 00:19:25.334 all the support they need 00:19:25.354 --> 00:19:28.135 at the moment because, as you know, 00:19:28.155 --> 00:19:30.277 there's a lot to do and 00:19:30.336 --> 00:19:31.218 some of them actually, 00:19:33.078 --> 00:19:35.602 having got even the resource 00:19:36.041 --> 00:19:37.242 to drive things forward. 00:19:37.303 --> 00:19:39.424 So given the agenda that 00:19:39.464 --> 00:19:40.405 this government got for the 00:19:40.465 --> 00:19:42.248 next year or two, 00:19:42.468 --> 00:19:43.788 we will rather concentrate 00:19:43.828 --> 00:19:45.490 on making things easier so 00:19:45.550 --> 00:19:46.832 we can get as much of 00:19:46.872 --> 00:19:47.992 investment as possible. 00:19:49.134 --> 00:19:49.275 Yeah. 00:19:49.861 --> 00:19:53.203 So when we, early days of Midlands Connect, 00:19:53.403 --> 00:19:54.664 there was talk and 00:19:54.765 --> 00:19:55.826 discussion in the 00:19:55.865 --> 00:19:58.807 partnership about getting 00:19:59.167 --> 00:20:00.669 statutory powers in the 00:20:00.709 --> 00:20:01.710 same way that Transport for 00:20:01.750 --> 00:20:03.571 the North have statutory powers. 00:20:04.311 --> 00:20:05.232 The only sub-national 00:20:05.252 --> 00:20:07.213 transport body to have statutory powers. 00:20:07.934 --> 00:20:09.496 And I think we went through 00:20:09.536 --> 00:20:11.356 a bit of a roller coaster at the time, 00:20:11.376 --> 00:20:12.198 didn't we? 00:20:12.678 --> 00:20:15.259 Both internally within the organisation, 00:20:16.101 --> 00:20:17.701 But also within the partnership, 00:20:18.061 --> 00:20:19.403 there were some within the 00:20:19.442 --> 00:20:20.123 partnership that were 00:20:20.143 --> 00:20:21.624 pushing for statutory powers, 00:20:22.023 --> 00:20:22.983 some in the partnership 00:20:23.023 --> 00:20:24.404 that were quite adamantly 00:20:24.464 --> 00:20:25.404 against it and others who 00:20:25.424 --> 00:20:26.586 were a bit more kind of neutral. 00:20:27.506 --> 00:20:30.248 And I remember that we 00:20:30.327 --> 00:20:32.828 settled on as a partnership, 00:20:33.068 --> 00:20:34.308 we settled on actually we 00:20:34.348 --> 00:20:35.289 don't think we need 00:20:35.309 --> 00:20:37.371 statutory powers to do the 00:20:37.451 --> 00:20:38.590 job that our partnership 00:20:38.651 --> 00:20:40.031 and the DFT have asked us to do. 00:20:42.682 --> 00:20:45.144 And so I guess until that changes, 00:20:45.443 --> 00:20:47.305 until that kind of role and 00:20:47.365 --> 00:20:48.425 function of a subnational 00:20:48.586 --> 00:20:50.667 transport body actually changes, 00:20:52.169 --> 00:20:53.269 the need for statutory 00:20:53.309 --> 00:20:54.069 powers for someone like 00:20:54.089 --> 00:20:55.230 Midlands Connect is maybe 00:20:55.671 --> 00:20:56.392 slightly lessened. 00:20:56.932 --> 00:20:59.673 But I suppose maybe that's a 00:20:59.733 --> 00:21:00.694 conversation that you're 00:21:00.714 --> 00:21:01.816 going to continue to have 00:21:01.895 --> 00:21:03.176 with the new government 00:21:03.217 --> 00:21:04.597 about what the role and 00:21:04.657 --> 00:21:05.617 function of subnational 00:21:05.637 --> 00:21:06.798 transport bodies needs to be. 00:21:08.319 --> 00:21:08.901 Absolutely. 00:21:08.980 --> 00:21:11.001 And the best thing that 00:21:11.021 --> 00:21:11.803 Midlands Connect was... 00:21:13.088 --> 00:21:14.849 did was to listen because at 00:21:15.009 --> 00:21:16.170 that time when all that 00:21:16.210 --> 00:21:17.329 debate was happening and 00:21:17.369 --> 00:21:18.471 again it was all about you 00:21:18.490 --> 00:21:19.191 know transport for the 00:21:19.230 --> 00:21:20.651 northeast why aren't you 00:21:20.691 --> 00:21:21.411 you know but there was a 00:21:21.451 --> 00:21:22.451 lot of pressure wasn't it 00:21:22.471 --> 00:21:24.491 in terms of us sort of 00:21:24.912 --> 00:21:26.313 wanted to become an equal 00:21:26.573 --> 00:21:28.073 influencer and an equal 00:21:28.093 --> 00:21:29.394 player as transport for the 00:21:29.453 --> 00:21:32.594 north and um but but again 00:21:32.713 --> 00:21:34.174 to your point when we did 00:21:34.909 --> 00:21:37.069 dig deep in terms of what actually, 00:21:37.150 --> 00:21:38.829 what powers are we after? 00:21:39.410 --> 00:21:43.151 Those powers, the region was saying, well, 00:21:43.171 --> 00:21:44.070 you can do that without 00:21:44.111 --> 00:21:45.291 becoming a statutory. 00:21:45.372 --> 00:21:47.652 Now, I think the debate at the moment is, 00:21:47.811 --> 00:21:48.731 this is what I was saying, 00:21:48.892 --> 00:21:50.553 what is the appetite for a 00:21:50.593 --> 00:21:53.894 new government to devolve powers? 00:21:55.594 --> 00:21:56.394 Because obviously some 00:21:56.433 --> 00:21:57.714 powers you can devolve locally, 00:21:57.795 --> 00:21:59.295 some powers, you know, 00:21:59.375 --> 00:22:00.194 and the whole purpose of 00:22:00.214 --> 00:22:00.954 the National Transport 00:22:00.994 --> 00:22:01.895 Bodies was to devolve 00:22:01.915 --> 00:22:03.155 powers that at the moment sit 00:22:03.576 --> 00:22:04.376 within the Secretary of 00:22:04.396 --> 00:22:05.336 State for Transport. 00:22:05.737 --> 00:22:07.337 And therefore, 00:22:07.718 --> 00:22:09.118 we need to have that conversation. 00:22:09.179 --> 00:22:10.779 Is there an appetite for that or not? 00:22:10.839 --> 00:22:13.020 And if there isn't, and even when there is, 00:22:14.021 --> 00:22:15.403 what does that mean with 00:22:15.442 --> 00:22:17.064 the devolution agenda locally? 00:22:17.564 --> 00:22:19.964 And so the way we're going about it, 00:22:20.025 --> 00:22:20.265 actually, 00:22:20.285 --> 00:22:21.885 is Midlands Canada is just about 00:22:21.925 --> 00:22:22.946 to start a piece of work 00:22:23.987 --> 00:22:24.768 that hopefully will be 00:22:24.807 --> 00:22:25.748 helpful to everybody, 00:22:25.768 --> 00:22:26.587 because this is all about 00:22:26.627 --> 00:22:27.548 providing clarity. 00:22:28.669 --> 00:22:29.808 It's actually going to say, 00:22:29.848 --> 00:22:31.490 look at the evolving landscape, 00:22:31.849 --> 00:22:32.830 particularly of the Midlands, 00:22:33.530 --> 00:22:34.911 and also look at what's 00:22:34.931 --> 00:22:36.471 happening with the rail 00:22:36.511 --> 00:22:39.653 reform and the introduction of GBR, 00:22:39.833 --> 00:22:41.213 which no doubt will have 00:22:42.334 --> 00:22:44.595 powers around the railway itself. 00:22:45.115 --> 00:22:46.916 So let's look at that and 00:22:46.957 --> 00:22:48.258 let's understand what are 00:22:48.357 --> 00:22:49.278 the possibilities or 00:22:49.338 --> 00:22:50.641 opportunities of Midlands 00:22:50.681 --> 00:22:53.262 Connect as a national 00:22:53.282 --> 00:22:54.484 transport body moving forward. 00:22:55.184 --> 00:22:58.228 That could involve exploring 00:22:58.248 --> 00:22:59.990 a statutory or actually could say, 00:23:00.029 --> 00:23:01.592 you know what, at the moment, 00:23:02.192 --> 00:23:03.472 there's no need for that still. 00:23:03.534 --> 00:23:05.095 We can still be as 00:23:05.154 --> 00:23:06.916 influential as we are in 00:23:06.936 --> 00:23:07.718 the current setup. 00:23:08.057 --> 00:23:08.858 So that's what we're doing. 00:23:11.071 --> 00:23:11.451 So let's, 00:23:11.672 --> 00:23:13.692 for the last couple of minutes 00:23:13.732 --> 00:23:14.773 before we need to wrap up Maria, 00:23:14.794 --> 00:23:15.794 let's pick on something 00:23:15.834 --> 00:23:18.154 else that I noticed in the manifesto. 00:23:19.056 --> 00:23:20.076 There's a promise in there 00:23:20.115 --> 00:23:22.356 to accelerate infrastructure delivery. 00:23:23.096 --> 00:23:24.538 So they talk about, 00:23:24.597 --> 00:23:25.837 Labour talks about in there 00:23:25.898 --> 00:23:28.440 that big infrastructure in 00:23:28.480 --> 00:23:31.141 particular takes too long to come forward, 00:23:31.421 --> 00:23:32.500 to be delivered. 00:23:33.521 --> 00:23:34.682 In the case of HS2, 00:23:34.741 --> 00:23:36.883 it took so long to come 00:23:36.923 --> 00:23:37.844 forward and be delivered 00:23:37.884 --> 00:23:38.703 that it wasn't delivered 00:23:38.864 --> 00:23:40.384 and people changed their minds. 00:23:41.894 --> 00:23:44.855 So do you think it's really 00:23:44.976 --> 00:23:46.596 possible to accelerate 00:23:46.695 --> 00:23:47.777 major infrastructure? 00:23:48.777 --> 00:23:49.757 What's holding it back now? 00:23:49.777 --> 00:23:51.136 What are the barriers as you see it? 00:23:52.577 --> 00:23:53.218 Well, I mean, 00:23:53.657 --> 00:23:56.058 if they want to have some 00:23:56.138 --> 00:23:57.239 practical examples, 00:23:57.298 --> 00:23:58.019 they should come to the 00:23:58.038 --> 00:23:59.338 Midlands straight away, shouldn't they, 00:23:59.378 --> 00:23:59.719 Simon? 00:23:59.759 --> 00:24:00.460 I mean, you're right. 00:24:03.692 --> 00:24:05.493 We shouldn't just say, that's it, done. 00:24:05.673 --> 00:24:06.634 We're just going to get on 00:24:06.673 --> 00:24:08.454 with phase one and forget about it. 00:24:08.734 --> 00:24:09.776 There's so much to learn 00:24:09.816 --> 00:24:11.817 from that project in the 00:24:11.876 --> 00:24:13.798 way it was planned, developed, 00:24:13.897 --> 00:24:17.359 and then the whole approval process. 00:24:18.221 --> 00:24:19.580 I think there is a huge 00:24:19.601 --> 00:24:20.862 amount of things you could 00:24:20.902 --> 00:24:22.482 do to make things much, much, 00:24:22.542 --> 00:24:23.123 much easier. 00:24:23.682 --> 00:24:24.564 We generally are. 00:24:25.030 --> 00:24:27.112 They're one of the worst 00:24:27.152 --> 00:24:28.172 performing countries when 00:24:28.231 --> 00:24:29.832 it comes to infrastructure delivery. 00:24:30.432 --> 00:24:31.653 And it's a shame because we 00:24:31.673 --> 00:24:32.792 got the best engineers and 00:24:32.813 --> 00:24:35.094 we got the best people that 00:24:35.153 --> 00:24:36.733 actually we export across the globe. 00:24:36.794 --> 00:24:37.354 I know we do. 00:24:37.734 --> 00:24:39.855 And so what's happening in here? 00:24:39.934 --> 00:24:42.036 So, you know, 00:24:42.076 --> 00:24:43.236 very well with the Midlands 00:24:43.276 --> 00:24:45.217 Rail Hub is also being very challenging. 00:24:45.257 --> 00:24:46.237 You know how long it took. 00:24:46.863 --> 00:24:48.306 for decisions to be made 00:24:48.386 --> 00:24:50.230 after all the information was submitted. 00:24:50.592 --> 00:24:52.234 So it's not so much about 00:24:52.635 --> 00:24:53.638 the planning system, 00:24:53.679 --> 00:24:55.423 it's actually the whole approval, 00:24:55.742 --> 00:24:56.766 the pace around 00:24:57.630 --> 00:24:59.111 focusing on one project and 00:24:59.230 --> 00:25:00.291 taking it through the old 00:25:00.352 --> 00:25:02.353 stages at pace rather than, 00:25:03.593 --> 00:25:05.134 but I guess the political 00:25:05.453 --> 00:25:07.895 angle is also quite important, you know, 00:25:08.435 --> 00:25:10.317 political interference with 00:25:10.396 --> 00:25:12.857 big schemes can really make 00:25:12.897 --> 00:25:14.519 a difference as well in 00:25:14.538 --> 00:25:16.140 terms of the delays and so on. 00:25:16.240 --> 00:25:18.320 So yes, there's lots to learn. 00:25:19.001 --> 00:25:20.742 I think there's massive opportunity. 00:25:21.163 --> 00:25:22.083 If there's a government 00:25:22.103 --> 00:25:23.163 who's serious about 00:25:23.723 --> 00:25:25.806 infrastructure delivery and 00:25:25.865 --> 00:25:27.028 the amount of savings you 00:25:27.067 --> 00:25:28.588 could create because of 00:25:28.648 --> 00:25:30.330 that efficiencies. 00:25:31.772 --> 00:25:33.114 There's huge opportunities. 00:25:33.213 --> 00:25:35.817 And I will ask anybody who's 00:25:35.856 --> 00:25:37.018 watching or listening to us, 00:25:37.097 --> 00:25:37.878 if they got any, 00:25:37.898 --> 00:25:39.881 if they would like to hear that perfect, 00:25:40.082 --> 00:25:41.002 perfect examples, 00:25:41.103 --> 00:25:41.883 come to the Midlands 00:25:41.903 --> 00:25:43.365 because we got backs of 00:25:43.424 --> 00:25:45.067 them and we're really determined to 00:25:45.542 --> 00:25:45.923 hopefully, 00:25:45.942 --> 00:25:46.844 the work that we're doing with 00:25:46.864 --> 00:25:47.644 the Rail Hub and our 00:25:47.684 --> 00:25:48.987 colleagues in Network Rail 00:25:49.586 --> 00:25:51.108 and the department and West 00:25:51.128 --> 00:25:52.049 Midlands Rail Executive, 00:25:52.410 --> 00:25:53.912 I think that's a good model 00:25:53.951 --> 00:25:55.093 to look at in terms of how 00:25:55.133 --> 00:25:56.054 we're working together. 00:25:56.074 --> 00:25:59.877 Yeah, I remember, as you point out, 00:25:59.897 --> 00:26:00.838 the early stages of the 00:26:00.898 --> 00:26:01.579 Midlands Rail Hub. 00:26:01.599 --> 00:26:02.681 For those who don't know, it's a 00:26:03.467 --> 00:26:05.708 It's a kind of £2 billion 00:26:06.248 --> 00:26:06.768 piece of rail 00:26:06.827 --> 00:26:07.848 infrastructure that kind of 00:26:07.929 --> 00:26:09.189 connects the East and the 00:26:09.209 --> 00:26:10.068 West Midlands together, 00:26:10.249 --> 00:26:11.470 albeit the infrastructure 00:26:11.490 --> 00:26:13.109 itself is in and around 00:26:13.391 --> 00:26:14.070 central Birmingham. 00:26:20.898 --> 00:26:23.281 The stage of development, 00:26:23.722 --> 00:26:25.164 so purely moving from 00:26:25.285 --> 00:26:26.405 strategic outline business 00:26:26.425 --> 00:26:29.369 case to outline business 00:26:29.390 --> 00:26:31.373 case or decision to proceed, let's say, 00:26:31.813 --> 00:26:32.934 that took more than a year 00:26:34.136 --> 00:26:35.198 from Midlands Connect to 00:26:35.238 --> 00:26:37.721 Network Rail submitting a business case. 00:26:38.442 --> 00:26:39.743 to deciding just to move on 00:26:39.763 --> 00:26:41.144 to the next stage of the business case. 00:26:41.546 --> 00:26:42.066 And admittedly, 00:26:42.086 --> 00:26:43.387 there's big sums of money involved. 00:26:43.488 --> 00:26:44.169 Don't get me wrong. 00:26:45.509 --> 00:26:47.211 It was a decision to spend 00:26:47.211 --> 00:26:49.314 £20 million on an outline 00:26:49.354 --> 00:26:51.656 business case and scrutiny 00:26:51.717 --> 00:26:52.778 needs to be given to that 00:26:52.958 --> 00:26:54.961 and the right decision needs to be made. 00:26:55.661 --> 00:26:56.922 But for that kind of project, 00:26:57.782 --> 00:26:58.703 it was a no-brainer. 00:26:59.924 --> 00:27:01.626 And yet it still took over a 00:27:01.666 --> 00:27:03.327 year for a decision to be made. 00:27:03.708 --> 00:27:05.309 And in that time, 00:27:05.509 --> 00:27:06.730 the team in Network Rail 00:27:06.770 --> 00:27:07.592 lost some of its momentum. 00:27:09.320 --> 00:27:11.801 It lost some of the people 00:27:11.821 --> 00:27:12.643 that have been working on 00:27:12.663 --> 00:27:13.923 the project to other projects, 00:27:13.983 --> 00:27:14.403 quite rightly. 00:27:14.443 --> 00:27:15.183 They're not sitting around 00:27:15.203 --> 00:27:16.484 for a year twiddling their 00:27:16.525 --> 00:27:17.546 thumbs waiting to move on. 00:27:18.086 --> 00:27:20.426 So there are definitely 00:27:20.627 --> 00:27:21.748 chunks of time in the 00:27:21.807 --> 00:27:23.588 development process that if 00:27:23.648 --> 00:27:24.750 we really wanted to speed 00:27:24.849 --> 00:27:27.652 up development and delivery 00:27:27.692 --> 00:27:30.752 of infrastructure, we really could. 00:27:30.772 --> 00:27:33.255 So do you see... 00:27:35.632 --> 00:27:36.775 got another minute or so 00:27:36.835 --> 00:27:37.777 before we need to start to 00:27:37.817 --> 00:27:38.499 kind of wrap up. 00:27:38.618 --> 00:27:39.300 One of the things they 00:27:39.560 --> 00:27:40.864 explicitly talk about is 00:27:41.746 --> 00:27:42.768 accelerating the rollout of 00:27:43.349 --> 00:27:44.613 electric vehicle infrastructure. 00:27:45.472 --> 00:27:46.693 And I know from, again, 00:27:46.733 --> 00:27:47.775 my time at Midlands Connect 00:27:47.815 --> 00:27:49.457 that you've got a big role 00:27:49.696 --> 00:27:52.859 in the kind of the coordination of, 00:27:54.560 --> 00:27:54.902 let's say, 00:27:54.961 --> 00:27:56.143 publicly funded EV 00:27:56.202 --> 00:27:57.864 infrastructure and the kind 00:27:57.884 --> 00:27:59.705 of the gap where the public 00:27:59.746 --> 00:28:02.087 sector needs to kind of fill in. 00:28:02.929 --> 00:28:05.070 So from the work that 00:28:05.151 --> 00:28:05.971 Midlands Connect's been 00:28:06.011 --> 00:28:07.232 doing over the last few years, 00:28:07.333 --> 00:28:08.473 and in particular since I've left, 00:28:08.574 --> 00:28:08.854 actually, 00:28:08.874 --> 00:28:09.875 so I don't really know the 00:28:09.914 --> 00:28:10.536 answer to this one, 00:28:10.935 --> 00:28:13.119 But what do you see as the 00:28:13.180 --> 00:28:15.804 challenges of accelerating infrastructure, 00:28:15.824 --> 00:28:17.467 that EV infrastructure, 00:28:17.487 --> 00:28:18.208 particularly the stuff 00:28:18.228 --> 00:28:19.670 that's funded by the public sector? 00:28:22.616 --> 00:28:23.798 It's been a phenomenal 00:28:23.877 --> 00:28:26.719 journey for the team in Midlands Connect, 00:28:26.778 --> 00:28:29.299 and I give credit to Barrett and Heather, 00:28:29.339 --> 00:28:29.960 you know them well, 00:28:30.480 --> 00:28:31.861 but also the local authorities. 00:28:32.141 --> 00:28:33.141 It's very, very easy, 00:28:33.201 --> 00:28:34.102 back to your point about 00:28:34.142 --> 00:28:36.042 how we go about delivering infrastructure, 00:28:36.522 --> 00:28:36.903 it's very, 00:28:36.942 --> 00:28:38.864 very easy to announce and to 00:28:39.304 --> 00:28:40.284 allocate funding, 00:28:41.085 --> 00:28:43.846 but on new areas such as this, 00:28:44.465 --> 00:28:45.728 where you need to very 00:28:45.807 --> 00:28:47.851 quickly identify locations, 00:28:48.171 --> 00:28:49.353 connect to the grid, 00:28:50.173 --> 00:28:51.635 get all of those planning 00:28:51.736 --> 00:28:53.538 in place to make sure that 00:28:53.578 --> 00:28:55.221 everybody gives consent at 00:28:55.361 --> 00:28:56.603 really local level. 00:28:58.365 --> 00:28:59.666 It's not easy. 00:29:02.509 --> 00:29:03.691 they have to, you know, 00:29:03.750 --> 00:29:05.112 that's when I think that 00:29:05.132 --> 00:29:05.971 was the added value that 00:29:06.011 --> 00:29:07.073 Midlands Connect brought. 00:29:07.133 --> 00:29:08.034 All the local authorities 00:29:08.054 --> 00:29:09.054 were pulling their hair, you know, 00:29:09.094 --> 00:29:10.315 it's like this is just not 00:29:10.375 --> 00:29:12.395 as straightforward as everybody thinks. 00:29:12.836 --> 00:29:14.657 Particularly for those, as you say, 00:29:14.837 --> 00:29:16.638 public sector funding tends 00:29:16.659 --> 00:29:17.880 to target those areas that 00:29:17.920 --> 00:29:19.740 are not commercially viable, as you know. 00:29:19.840 --> 00:29:20.602 So therefore... 00:29:21.061 --> 00:29:23.183 there's a bit more challenge 00:29:23.243 --> 00:29:24.945 in terms of there might not 00:29:24.965 --> 00:29:26.527 be the grid to connect to, you know, 00:29:26.567 --> 00:29:27.827 these are really isolated, 00:29:27.867 --> 00:29:28.788 maybe rural areas, 00:29:28.828 --> 00:29:29.349 they haven't got 00:29:29.410 --> 00:29:30.471 infrastructure to even 00:29:31.050 --> 00:29:34.173 connect the EV points or whatever. 00:29:34.493 --> 00:29:36.375 But also about maintenance, you know, 00:29:36.395 --> 00:29:37.436 nobody thought about once 00:29:37.477 --> 00:29:38.357 you put them in place, 00:29:38.397 --> 00:29:40.019 who's going to take care of this, right? 00:29:40.955 --> 00:29:41.997 And what are the skills? 00:29:42.017 --> 00:29:44.417 How we got these people that actually can, 00:29:44.738 --> 00:29:45.698 if something goes wrong, 00:29:46.638 --> 00:29:47.739 who's going to take care of that? 00:29:47.778 --> 00:29:49.140 The repairs, the contracts. 00:29:49.160 --> 00:29:50.441 This is a three-year contract. 00:29:50.681 --> 00:29:52.281 Well, we only got funding for two years. 00:29:52.301 --> 00:29:53.622 What's going to happen afterwards? 00:29:54.102 --> 00:29:55.762 The local government have got no funding. 00:29:55.883 --> 00:29:57.044 I could go on and on. 00:29:57.084 --> 00:29:58.084 Hopefully you're sensing. 00:29:58.104 --> 00:29:59.444 It was so easy. 00:29:59.464 --> 00:30:01.165 It was just super easy to say, 00:30:01.605 --> 00:30:03.086 we've got lots of millions of pounds. 00:30:03.106 --> 00:30:04.727 We're going to put it all in place. 00:30:06.351 --> 00:30:08.092 So again, instead of, I'm not complaining, 00:30:08.152 --> 00:30:09.231 I'm just saying there's so 00:30:09.291 --> 00:30:10.231 much more we can do in 00:30:10.251 --> 00:30:11.332 terms of lessons learned, 00:30:11.992 --> 00:30:13.133 economies of scale, 00:30:13.673 --> 00:30:15.334 how do you go about contracts, 00:30:16.314 --> 00:30:18.794 and actually the private 00:30:18.814 --> 00:30:19.875 sector are up for it, 00:30:20.154 --> 00:30:21.634 but it's all of these things. 00:30:21.654 --> 00:30:22.736 So we're all very excited. 00:30:22.796 --> 00:30:24.476 We're working extremely, 00:30:24.516 --> 00:30:25.776 extremely well together. 00:30:27.517 --> 00:30:29.477 But we need to sort of 00:30:30.018 --> 00:30:31.278 really do our lessons 00:30:31.337 --> 00:30:35.038 learned and don't let these, you know, 00:30:35.665 --> 00:30:37.406 competitive funding and all 00:30:37.426 --> 00:30:39.307 of these decisions on and off, on and off, 00:30:39.888 --> 00:30:42.049 stop the massive amount of 00:30:42.069 --> 00:30:43.471 work that we do in a local level. 00:30:44.790 --> 00:30:45.291 That's brilliant. 00:30:45.332 --> 00:30:45.991 Thank you, Maria. 00:30:46.352 --> 00:30:47.133 Massive thank you for 00:30:47.272 --> 00:30:49.554 joining us today and being 00:30:49.894 --> 00:30:50.855 part of the conversation, 00:30:50.875 --> 00:30:53.096 as well as your dog that's 00:30:53.135 --> 00:30:54.436 under the table that had a 00:30:55.238 --> 00:30:56.698 bit of a... I'm so sorry about that. 00:30:57.459 --> 00:30:58.118 No, that's OK. 00:30:58.199 --> 00:30:59.019 No problem whatsoever. 00:30:59.039 --> 00:31:00.840 We spent 12 days in lockdown, 00:31:00.921 --> 00:31:02.162 but I do appreciate it. 00:31:03.481 --> 00:31:04.541 Not a problem. 00:31:04.682 --> 00:31:06.063 And for those still on, 00:31:06.103 --> 00:31:07.182 we've got further sessions 00:31:07.242 --> 00:31:09.324 coming up over the next few weeks. 00:31:09.364 --> 00:31:10.344 Some of them are on the screen, 00:31:10.743 --> 00:31:11.624 as you can see there. 00:31:12.365 --> 00:31:13.644 The next one in particular 00:31:14.684 --> 00:31:16.185 is tomorrow at two o'clock. 00:31:16.645 --> 00:31:18.086 My colleague Matt Clark will 00:31:18.105 --> 00:31:20.027 be speaking to Toby Poston, 00:31:20.067 --> 00:31:21.146 the Director of Corporate 00:31:21.186 --> 00:31:22.528 Affairs at the British 00:31:22.647 --> 00:31:25.208 Vehicle Renting and Leasing Association. 00:31:25.268 --> 00:31:26.249 So hopefully that should be 00:31:26.269 --> 00:31:27.128 an interesting one again. 00:31:27.888 --> 00:31:28.409 And once again, 00:31:28.449 --> 00:31:29.329 a big thank you to Maria 00:31:29.390 --> 00:31:30.329 for your time today. 00:31:30.369 --> 00:31:30.789 Thanks, Maria. 00:31:31.442 --> 00:31:32.182 Thank you, Simon, 00:31:32.222 --> 00:31:33.444 and thank you to Stia as well. 00:31:33.525 --> 00:31:33.786 Thanks. 00:31:33.986 --> 00:31:34.547 Thanks, everyone.