Transcript - EVs in 30: Driving adoption under a changing EV policy 00:00:15.694 --> 00:00:16.954 Good afternoon and welcome 00:00:16.974 --> 00:00:18.475 to the second instalment of 00:00:18.495 --> 00:00:20.115 STEER's election reflection series, 00:00:20.675 --> 00:00:21.196 where we're bringing 00:00:21.236 --> 00:00:22.496 together industry experts 00:00:22.716 --> 00:00:23.937 for 30 minute conversations 00:00:24.417 --> 00:00:25.318 on the impact of Labour's 00:00:25.378 --> 00:00:26.397 agenda across cities, 00:00:26.957 --> 00:00:28.138 transport and infrastructure. 00:00:29.739 --> 00:00:30.640 My name is Matthew Clarke. 00:00:31.079 --> 00:00:32.539 I lead STEER's work in new mobility, 00:00:32.981 --> 00:00:34.060 which focuses on electric 00:00:34.081 --> 00:00:34.981 vehicles and infrastructure, 00:00:35.542 --> 00:00:36.781 shared mobility and 00:00:36.822 --> 00:00:37.902 emerging transport services. 00:00:39.343 --> 00:00:39.982 Thank you for joining us 00:00:40.003 --> 00:00:41.103 today for this particular 00:00:41.124 --> 00:00:42.603 conversation about what a 00:00:42.664 --> 00:00:44.405 Labour government will mean in terms of 00:00:44.789 --> 00:00:46.610 electric vehicle adoption in the UK. 00:00:47.651 --> 00:00:49.290 I'm delighted to be joined by Toby Poston, 00:00:49.692 --> 00:00:50.472 Director of Corporate 00:00:50.491 --> 00:00:51.692 Affairs for the British 00:00:51.712 --> 00:00:53.313 Vehicle Rental and Leasing Association, 00:00:53.893 --> 00:00:54.552 the BVRLA. 00:00:55.694 --> 00:00:56.533 Toby oversees the 00:00:56.554 --> 00:00:58.414 association's communications, events, 00:00:58.814 --> 00:00:59.195 policy, 00:00:59.515 --> 00:01:01.155 campaigning and research activities. 00:01:02.216 --> 00:01:04.135 Prior to joining the BVRLA 15 years ago, 00:01:04.656 --> 00:01:05.757 Toby spent more than a 00:01:05.796 --> 00:01:07.156 decade as a business journalist, 00:01:07.436 --> 00:01:08.397 including six years as a 00:01:08.438 --> 00:01:10.337 reporter and editor at the 00:01:10.378 --> 00:01:11.718 BBC Economics Unit. 00:01:12.239 --> 00:01:12.698 Welcome, Toby. 00:01:13.905 --> 00:01:14.364 Hi there, Matthew. 00:01:14.385 --> 00:01:14.945 Lovely to be here. 00:01:16.927 --> 00:01:17.507 You'll be able to find a 00:01:17.528 --> 00:01:18.427 recording of this session 00:01:19.088 --> 00:01:20.989 and other sessions on our website, 00:01:21.269 --> 00:01:22.411 steergroup.com. 00:01:23.090 --> 00:01:24.451 It's also worth noting that 00:01:24.492 --> 00:01:26.313 these recordings will be subtitled. 00:01:28.135 --> 00:01:28.674 As we're talking, 00:01:28.795 --> 00:01:29.516 you'll be able to use the 00:01:29.575 --> 00:01:30.757 comments section to share 00:01:30.777 --> 00:01:32.317 your views as the conversation goes on. 00:01:33.438 --> 00:01:33.759 However, 00:01:34.099 --> 00:01:35.719 given the condensed format of 00:01:35.739 --> 00:01:36.180 these events, 00:01:36.521 --> 00:01:37.441 we won't be able to respond 00:01:37.481 --> 00:01:38.742 to these comments live. 00:01:39.063 --> 00:01:40.003 But Toby and I will review 00:01:40.022 --> 00:01:40.944 your questions and comments 00:01:41.304 --> 00:01:42.265 and come back to you after 00:01:42.305 --> 00:01:43.706 the event as appropriate. 00:01:44.849 --> 00:01:45.769 So let's get going. 00:01:46.790 --> 00:01:47.430 To set the scene, 00:01:48.090 --> 00:01:49.191 following a changing 00:01:49.230 --> 00:01:50.391 landscape in terms of 00:01:50.432 --> 00:01:52.512 electric vehicle policy and timelines, 00:01:53.173 --> 00:01:54.393 we're here today to talk 00:01:54.433 --> 00:01:55.393 about electric vehicles 00:01:55.472 --> 00:01:56.953 infrastructure in the UK 00:01:57.394 --> 00:01:58.254 and how this sector might 00:01:58.313 --> 00:01:59.855 evolve under a Labour government. 00:02:01.474 --> 00:02:03.596 So to set the scene, in recent years, 00:02:03.615 --> 00:02:04.775 we've seen strong electric 00:02:04.796 --> 00:02:06.037 vehicle adoption in the UK, 00:02:06.516 --> 00:02:07.757 and this has been driven in 00:02:07.777 --> 00:02:09.157 particular by vehicles sold 00:02:09.177 --> 00:02:09.717 through fleets. 00:02:11.258 --> 00:02:12.179 We've seen a background of 00:02:12.239 --> 00:02:13.258 changing government policy 00:02:13.992 --> 00:02:15.133 in terms of ending the sale 00:02:15.153 --> 00:02:16.596 of internal combustion engine vehicles. 00:02:18.137 --> 00:02:20.500 The Labour Manifesto pledged 00:02:20.879 --> 00:02:22.942 to reinstate the 2030 ban 00:02:23.002 --> 00:02:23.923 on the sale of internal 00:02:23.943 --> 00:02:25.664 combustion engine vehicles, 00:02:25.844 --> 00:02:26.605 in particular cars. 00:02:28.128 --> 00:02:30.550 So, Toby, welcoming you to this series. 00:02:31.412 --> 00:02:33.313 Against the landscape that I've outlined, 00:02:33.334 --> 00:02:34.555 I'd like to explore your 00:02:34.615 --> 00:02:36.356 views on a number of questions. 00:02:37.157 --> 00:02:38.478 And the first of these is 00:02:38.838 --> 00:02:40.099 really to get your kind of 00:02:40.180 --> 00:02:42.201 view on electric vehicle 00:02:42.222 --> 00:02:43.902 adoption levels and what 00:02:43.943 --> 00:02:45.525 you think the sort of current trends are, 00:02:45.564 --> 00:02:46.485 particularly in fleets. 00:02:47.425 --> 00:02:48.906 And I guess as we talk, 00:02:48.945 --> 00:02:50.046 it'd be interesting to see 00:02:50.187 --> 00:02:51.447 whether that differs by 00:02:52.326 --> 00:02:53.848 vehicles that are leased or rented, 00:02:54.307 --> 00:02:54.987 and then maybe touch a 00:02:55.027 --> 00:02:56.307 little bit on the 00:02:56.328 --> 00:02:57.829 difference between cars and 00:02:57.889 --> 00:02:58.829 light commercial vehicles. 00:03:00.149 --> 00:03:00.370 Sure. 00:03:00.610 --> 00:03:02.610 So I think first thing to 00:03:02.650 --> 00:03:04.651 say is we've come a long 00:03:04.711 --> 00:03:06.450 way and it's very, 00:03:06.570 --> 00:03:08.192 if you look at the sort of macro figures, 00:03:10.072 --> 00:03:11.231 it's easy to say that, you know, 00:03:11.252 --> 00:03:12.473 we've done a great job so far. 00:03:12.532 --> 00:03:13.372 You can point to the fact 00:03:13.393 --> 00:03:15.013 that there's over a million 00:03:15.213 --> 00:03:16.734 EVs now on the roads. 00:03:17.729 --> 00:03:19.349 We're probably fast approaching, 00:03:19.389 --> 00:03:21.230 if not just gone past 00:03:21.230 --> 00:03:24.451 65,000 public charge points available. 00:03:25.211 --> 00:03:26.233 And we've got a really 00:03:26.312 --> 00:03:27.693 strong policy environment, 00:03:27.733 --> 00:03:29.234 particularly with the ZEV 00:03:29.274 --> 00:03:29.993 mandate and the high 00:03:30.033 --> 00:03:31.835 profile phase out target 00:03:32.194 --> 00:03:33.414 that really helped direct 00:03:33.816 --> 00:03:35.776 everybody involved in road 00:03:35.816 --> 00:03:37.137 transport towards clear 00:03:38.016 --> 00:03:39.758 targets and timelines. 00:03:39.818 --> 00:03:40.698 So from that point of view, 00:03:41.018 --> 00:03:42.579 things are going pretty well. 00:03:44.361 --> 00:03:45.222 I'd say probably the one 00:03:45.301 --> 00:03:46.423 sector that hasn't come to 00:03:46.443 --> 00:03:47.242 the party yet really, 00:03:47.263 --> 00:03:48.704 and this is what's causing concern, 00:03:49.383 --> 00:03:51.144 is that private or retail 00:03:51.304 --> 00:03:53.185 demand for electric vehicles. 00:03:53.444 --> 00:03:54.806 So if you counterpoise it 00:03:54.825 --> 00:03:55.566 against the business 00:03:55.825 --> 00:03:57.947 corporate fleet side and the retail, 00:03:58.287 --> 00:04:00.106 that's the one that's really lacking. 00:04:00.366 --> 00:04:01.987 And the unfortunate side 00:04:02.027 --> 00:04:03.147 effect of that is a really, 00:04:03.207 --> 00:04:05.669 really imbalanced transition. 00:04:06.489 --> 00:04:08.129 And obviously that imbalance 00:04:08.735 --> 00:04:10.475 gets much more important as 00:04:10.515 --> 00:04:12.138 we head towards those big 00:04:12.198 --> 00:04:14.498 targets and as the EV fleet 00:04:14.618 --> 00:04:16.000 across the whole UK grows 00:04:16.401 --> 00:04:17.781 and we need to meet the 00:04:17.841 --> 00:04:19.182 needs of millions and 00:04:19.223 --> 00:04:21.524 millions and millions of EV drivers. 00:04:21.564 --> 00:04:23.886 So to maybe give you a bit 00:04:23.906 --> 00:04:24.706 of illustration of what 00:04:24.726 --> 00:04:25.807 that imbalance looks like, 00:04:26.627 --> 00:04:28.370 if you look at corporate 00:04:28.829 --> 00:04:29.750 fleets in terms of the 00:04:30.031 --> 00:04:31.791 percentage that is battery electric, 00:04:32.213 --> 00:04:32.992 it's up towards, 00:04:33.293 --> 00:04:34.153 in terms of registrations, 00:04:34.194 --> 00:04:35.954 it's up towards sort of 40% 00:04:35.954 --> 00:04:38.096 plus now is electric. 00:04:38.677 --> 00:04:40.237 When you compare that to 00:04:40.298 --> 00:04:41.259 private registrations, 00:04:41.278 --> 00:04:43.079 it's probably in single 00:04:43.420 --> 00:04:44.480 figure percentages. 00:04:45.120 --> 00:04:46.601 If you look at the rental market, again, 00:04:46.641 --> 00:04:51.305 the car rental fleet is at around 4%. 00:04:51.305 --> 00:04:52.165 And then if you look at 00:04:52.425 --> 00:04:53.065 another example of the 00:04:53.105 --> 00:04:54.706 imbalance is the used market, 00:04:55.107 --> 00:04:58.608 where we've seen a 50% fall 00:04:58.728 --> 00:04:59.970 in the value of used BEVs 00:05:00.470 --> 00:05:01.810 over the past two years, 00:05:02.651 --> 00:05:03.891 whereas ICE vehicles have 00:05:03.911 --> 00:05:06.754 sort of held their value pretty well. 00:05:07.355 --> 00:05:08.915 Other examples are with 00:05:09.016 --> 00:05:09.817 dealers who obviously play 00:05:09.857 --> 00:05:13.019 such an important role in selling BEVs. 00:05:13.639 --> 00:05:15.079 You've got about 80 plus 00:05:15.120 --> 00:05:16.100 percent of franchise 00:05:16.141 --> 00:05:17.161 dealers are actively 00:05:17.221 --> 00:05:18.423 selling new and used BEVs, 00:05:18.862 --> 00:05:20.524 whereas it's way below 20 00:05:20.524 --> 00:05:21.964 percent for independent dealers. 00:05:23.026 --> 00:05:25.266 And then the final imbalance, I'd say, 00:05:25.346 --> 00:05:28.309 is probably more of a less 00:05:28.389 --> 00:05:29.050 based on numbers, 00:05:29.089 --> 00:05:30.891 but just the fact that the 00:05:30.930 --> 00:05:32.853 product that's out there, unfortunately, 00:05:32.872 --> 00:05:33.932 we're in a situation where 00:05:34.334 --> 00:05:34.954 battery electric, 00:05:35.461 --> 00:05:36.942 cars and vans cost a lot to 00:05:36.982 --> 00:05:38.562 manufacture and the profit 00:05:38.583 --> 00:05:39.822 margins are much much 00:05:40.322 --> 00:05:41.923 tighter which means that 00:05:42.163 --> 00:05:42.985 unfortunately they're sort 00:05:43.024 --> 00:05:44.925 of most a lot of the 00:05:44.966 --> 00:05:46.026 vehicles that are available 00:05:46.387 --> 00:05:47.326 um battery electric 00:05:47.346 --> 00:05:48.387 vehicles are very available 00:05:48.468 --> 00:05:50.809 from uh manufacturers are 00:05:50.869 --> 00:05:52.430 priced more expensive than 00:05:52.470 --> 00:05:54.130 the what a consumer is is 00:05:54.170 --> 00:05:55.290 intending to spend so 00:05:55.310 --> 00:05:56.151 there's an imbalance there 00:05:56.172 --> 00:05:56.911 in terms of what's 00:05:56.951 --> 00:05:57.911 available and what people 00:05:57.951 --> 00:05:59.552 are looking for so these 00:05:59.572 --> 00:06:00.254 are all some of the things 00:06:00.293 --> 00:06:01.634 we have to tackle and sort 00:06:01.673 --> 00:06:02.855 of reduce that reduce that 00:06:03.225 --> 00:06:03.446 Yeah. 00:06:03.947 --> 00:06:04.466 So I guess what you're 00:06:04.487 --> 00:06:05.627 saying is that if you look 00:06:05.648 --> 00:06:07.009 at the aggregate statistics 00:06:07.149 --> 00:06:08.410 on vehicles that are being registered, 00:06:08.430 --> 00:06:11.331 it actually hides a real 00:06:11.451 --> 00:06:12.531 difference there between 00:06:12.572 --> 00:06:13.392 those vehicles that are 00:06:13.413 --> 00:06:14.894 being added to fleets and 00:06:14.913 --> 00:06:15.553 those that are going to the 00:06:15.574 --> 00:06:16.154 private market. 00:06:16.855 --> 00:06:17.576 Yeah, absolutely. 00:06:17.735 --> 00:06:18.115 Absolutely. 00:06:18.255 --> 00:06:18.916 And, you know, 00:06:18.976 --> 00:06:22.598 I think the government has done well, 00:06:22.619 --> 00:06:24.560 has sort of worked with the sector, 00:06:24.821 --> 00:06:25.620 the business sector, 00:06:25.641 --> 00:06:26.661 which makes rational 00:06:27.322 --> 00:06:28.483 cost-based decisions. 00:06:28.543 --> 00:06:31.285 So it's used the right levers and it's got 00:06:31.880 --> 00:06:33.742 a long track record of using those levers, 00:06:33.781 --> 00:06:34.922 those tax incentives, 00:06:35.062 --> 00:06:36.302 or the sort of more stick 00:06:36.322 --> 00:06:38.502 side of the tax regime. 00:06:39.083 --> 00:06:40.903 And it knows that companies, 00:06:41.024 --> 00:06:42.764 fleets will respond to that very, 00:06:42.783 --> 00:06:43.403 very quickly. 00:06:43.884 --> 00:06:44.324 And they have, 00:06:44.504 --> 00:06:45.225 they produce strong 00:06:45.264 --> 00:06:46.285 incentives in the form of 00:06:46.324 --> 00:06:47.704 the benefit in kind regime. 00:06:48.805 --> 00:06:51.266 And that has turbocharged adoption. 00:06:51.286 --> 00:06:53.107 But I think what we're 00:06:53.166 --> 00:06:55.468 beginning to see now is people just say, 00:06:55.487 --> 00:06:55.968 well, hang on, 00:06:56.187 --> 00:06:57.187 it's no good just relying 00:06:57.228 --> 00:07:00.329 on one sector of industry to sort of bear 00:07:01.367 --> 00:07:02.749 all the burden of that transition. 00:07:02.988 --> 00:07:03.988 You have to have a broad 00:07:04.048 --> 00:07:06.009 base to have a strong sort 00:07:06.029 --> 00:07:07.189 of transition going forward. 00:07:07.870 --> 00:07:08.310 I guess it's quite 00:07:08.331 --> 00:07:09.011 interesting because you 00:07:09.050 --> 00:07:10.391 mentioned there about the 00:07:10.430 --> 00:07:12.232 decline in battery electric 00:07:12.252 --> 00:07:13.593 vehicle secondhand values. 00:07:13.973 --> 00:07:14.413 Do you think there's 00:07:14.432 --> 00:07:15.913 actually there a kind of an 00:07:16.834 --> 00:07:17.793 upside to that for the 00:07:17.853 --> 00:07:19.355 private consumer in that 00:07:19.394 --> 00:07:20.295 many private consumers 00:07:20.314 --> 00:07:21.415 aren't buying new and they 00:07:21.454 --> 00:07:22.415 are actually accessing the 00:07:22.456 --> 00:07:23.216 secondhand market? 00:07:23.636 --> 00:07:24.697 I know a couple of years ago, 00:07:25.336 --> 00:07:26.377 the complaint from the 00:07:26.497 --> 00:07:27.778 consumer side was that the 00:07:28.197 --> 00:07:29.158 secondhand supply of 00:07:29.218 --> 00:07:30.579 battery electric vehicles wasn't there. 00:07:31.019 --> 00:07:31.838 So is there a kind of a 00:07:32.120 --> 00:07:33.019 cyclical thing where 00:07:33.060 --> 00:07:35.560 actually that secondhand 00:07:35.620 --> 00:07:37.242 supply and the drop in 00:07:37.281 --> 00:07:39.742 values is not great for the fleet market, 00:07:40.023 --> 00:07:40.963 but actually it starts to 00:07:41.004 --> 00:07:42.904 mean that the private 00:07:42.925 --> 00:07:44.105 market can pick up again? 00:07:45.225 --> 00:07:45.646 Absolutely. 00:07:45.725 --> 00:07:46.947 So this is one of the 00:07:46.966 --> 00:07:48.026 complexities you get when 00:07:48.047 --> 00:07:49.867 you try and talk about the used market, 00:07:49.908 --> 00:07:51.127 because it obviously 00:07:51.149 --> 00:07:52.428 impacts lots of different players. 00:07:52.449 --> 00:07:54.250 There's lots of people involved. 00:07:54.610 --> 00:07:55.870 First thing to say is it's massive. 00:07:55.891 --> 00:07:56.730 80% of vehicles sold each year. 00:07:59.290 --> 00:08:01.492 bought each year are used. 00:08:02.213 --> 00:08:03.632 So it's a very, very important market. 00:08:04.233 --> 00:08:04.793 You're dead right. 00:08:05.634 --> 00:08:06.454 There's probably never been 00:08:06.475 --> 00:08:08.795 a better time to buy a used EV. 00:08:09.536 --> 00:08:10.997 The problem is when you look 00:08:11.036 --> 00:08:11.817 aside from that sort of 00:08:11.858 --> 00:08:13.117 consumer perspective, 00:08:13.637 --> 00:08:15.459 there's been a 50% fall in 00:08:15.499 --> 00:08:17.199 those values over two years. 00:08:17.259 --> 00:08:18.761 So that volatility, 00:08:19.240 --> 00:08:20.841 that depreciation has a 00:08:20.901 --> 00:08:21.641 number of effects. 00:08:21.682 --> 00:08:24.244 The first one is it scares 00:08:24.903 --> 00:08:26.204 dealers into thinking, you know, 00:08:26.264 --> 00:08:27.906 I can't go and wholesale buy a load of 00:08:29.266 --> 00:08:30.807 used bevs because no sooner 00:08:30.826 --> 00:08:32.008 will I have them on my forecourt, 00:08:32.028 --> 00:08:33.368 they'll be losing money every day. 00:08:33.388 --> 00:08:35.548 So it means they don't want to sell them, 00:08:35.567 --> 00:08:37.048 which is why I think that 00:08:37.089 --> 00:08:39.068 figure of dealers selling them is so low. 00:08:39.668 --> 00:08:41.048 The other thing is that 00:08:41.509 --> 00:08:42.509 someone has to cover the 00:08:42.570 --> 00:08:43.850 cost of that depreciation. 00:08:43.970 --> 00:08:46.890 If that electric car over 00:08:46.910 --> 00:08:48.191 the course of the typical lease, 00:08:48.311 --> 00:08:51.111 let's say three, four years, is losing, 00:08:51.892 --> 00:08:53.292 say, 40% of its value or 50% of its value, 00:08:53.312 --> 00:08:53.971 a lot more than you thought. 00:08:58.716 --> 00:09:00.317 that depreciation has to be 00:09:00.798 --> 00:09:01.899 priced in going forward 00:09:01.958 --> 00:09:03.500 into the new lease rate. 00:09:03.539 --> 00:09:05.181 Most people now buy their cars on finance. 00:09:05.201 --> 00:09:06.120 So they're not used to 00:09:06.160 --> 00:09:06.961 paying a bulk amount. 00:09:07.001 --> 00:09:08.243 They used to pay a monthly fee. 00:09:08.783 --> 00:09:10.104 So the impact is going to be 00:09:10.203 --> 00:09:11.524 one that people are just 00:09:11.624 --> 00:09:13.586 wary of the market because it's volatile. 00:09:13.625 --> 00:09:14.985 And so they won't sell it 00:09:15.025 --> 00:09:16.027 and it won't develop that way. 00:09:16.047 --> 00:09:17.148 You won't have a range of choice. 00:09:17.687 --> 00:09:19.828 The other one is the huge 00:09:19.869 --> 00:09:21.049 depreciation will have to 00:09:21.090 --> 00:09:22.211 be paid for somewhere and 00:09:22.230 --> 00:09:24.491 it will end up going on new lease rates. 00:09:25.131 --> 00:09:25.412 Um, 00:09:25.451 --> 00:09:26.753 and that just prices out a whole new 00:09:26.793 --> 00:09:28.073 generation of people, um, 00:09:28.871 --> 00:09:29.793 from getting on board there. 00:09:29.812 --> 00:09:31.053 So that's our main concerns. 00:09:32.375 --> 00:09:34.616 So let's think about the positives. 00:09:34.876 --> 00:09:36.577 So you talked a little bit about this, 00:09:36.638 --> 00:09:37.818 but what do you think is 00:09:37.918 --> 00:09:39.340 working well to encourage 00:09:39.419 --> 00:09:42.163 EV adoption in the UK? 00:09:42.182 --> 00:09:43.283 I think a nice simple way of 00:09:43.644 --> 00:09:44.563 looking at this is probably 00:09:44.664 --> 00:09:46.605 to think of it as hearts and minds. 00:09:46.666 --> 00:09:47.726 Most people fall into one of 00:09:47.807 --> 00:09:49.107 those buckets in terms of 00:09:49.508 --> 00:09:50.308 whether they're going to 00:09:50.708 --> 00:09:53.130 transition to zero emission. 00:09:53.871 --> 00:09:54.871 And I think there's pluses 00:09:54.913 --> 00:09:56.474 and minuses on both sides. 00:09:56.514 --> 00:09:56.734 I think 00:09:57.831 --> 00:09:58.633 On the heart side, 00:09:59.113 --> 00:09:59.953 I think that million 00:10:00.094 --> 00:10:01.335 represents a very good job 00:10:01.375 --> 00:10:02.735 done with all those people 00:10:02.755 --> 00:10:04.397 that probably didn't need a 00:10:04.437 --> 00:10:05.378 lot of convincing that they 00:10:05.418 --> 00:10:06.359 wanted to go green. 00:10:06.599 --> 00:10:07.639 They see the big picture. 00:10:07.919 --> 00:10:10.182 They like the idea of their 00:10:10.302 --> 00:10:11.322 transport not having any 00:10:11.442 --> 00:10:12.464 carbon emissions or very 00:10:12.524 --> 00:10:13.684 limited from the tailpipe, 00:10:14.445 --> 00:10:15.426 zero from the tailpipe. 00:10:15.826 --> 00:10:17.927 And they've obviously bought into that. 00:10:19.089 --> 00:10:19.729 I think on that side, 00:10:19.749 --> 00:10:20.429 I think you've got to say 00:10:20.450 --> 00:10:21.530 also there's a significant 00:10:21.591 --> 00:10:22.671 portion of people on the 00:10:22.892 --> 00:10:24.712 sort of emotional side who are, 00:10:25.352 --> 00:10:26.013 never going to buy an 00:10:26.052 --> 00:10:26.854 electric vehicle in the 00:10:26.894 --> 00:10:27.933 short term you know they 00:10:27.953 --> 00:10:29.835 are just so pro uh 00:10:29.894 --> 00:10:31.434 combustion they're probably 00:10:31.754 --> 00:10:32.716 you know climate change 00:10:32.755 --> 00:10:34.495 deniers uh don't think any 00:10:34.515 --> 00:10:35.317 of this is happening so 00:10:35.336 --> 00:10:36.236 they are always going to be 00:10:36.277 --> 00:10:36.897 maybe the sort that you 00:10:36.917 --> 00:10:38.597 need to leave for later you 00:10:38.618 --> 00:10:39.658 know you may need a 00:10:39.697 --> 00:10:40.857 relatively small chunk of 00:10:40.878 --> 00:10:42.178 the market I hope so yeah I 00:10:42.198 --> 00:10:42.719 think they're probably the 00:10:42.759 --> 00:10:43.318 ones that are going to need 00:10:43.359 --> 00:10:44.460 a stick rather than a 00:10:44.500 --> 00:10:46.340 carrot and they're you know 00:10:46.360 --> 00:10:47.201 um and then there's 00:10:47.221 --> 00:10:48.000 probably in the mid there's 00:10:48.020 --> 00:10:49.100 probably quite a lot in the 00:10:49.140 --> 00:10:50.782 middle right and I think they are 00:10:51.615 --> 00:10:52.996 one of the challenging areas 00:10:53.057 --> 00:10:53.976 now where there's probably 00:10:53.996 --> 00:10:55.138 a combination of factors 00:10:55.158 --> 00:10:55.837 that are going to get them 00:10:55.898 --> 00:10:56.578 over the line you know 00:10:56.619 --> 00:10:57.339 there's probably 00:10:57.379 --> 00:10:59.799 unfortunately a few who are 00:11:00.399 --> 00:11:01.941 um maybe too trusting in 00:11:01.980 --> 00:11:02.902 some of the media who've 00:11:02.942 --> 00:11:04.302 got this sort of slightly 00:11:04.341 --> 00:11:05.423 negative slant particularly 00:11:05.462 --> 00:11:06.703 some of the press in terms 00:11:06.744 --> 00:11:08.664 of these these um false 00:11:08.745 --> 00:11:09.764 myths around you know uh 00:11:11.166 --> 00:11:12.326 electric vehicles crashing 00:11:12.385 --> 00:11:14.187 through uh car park roofs 00:11:14.246 --> 00:11:15.467 or catching fire I think 00:11:15.488 --> 00:11:16.327 things which have all been 00:11:16.548 --> 00:11:18.048 all been debunked by by the 00:11:18.068 --> 00:11:20.090 people that know and also 00:11:20.169 --> 00:11:21.291 maybe other people who sort of just 00:11:21.724 --> 00:11:23.304 keeping an eye on the public 00:11:23.365 --> 00:11:25.044 charging provision and saying, 00:11:25.065 --> 00:11:26.385 until I see a nice shiny, 00:11:27.306 --> 00:11:30.687 big range of public charging near me, 00:11:31.528 --> 00:11:32.288 maybe I won't do it. 00:11:32.327 --> 00:11:34.788 So I think we're sort of not bad there, 00:11:34.828 --> 00:11:35.448 but there's obviously some 00:11:35.469 --> 00:11:36.289 stuff to work on. 00:11:36.789 --> 00:11:39.951 When you look at the mines piece, again, 00:11:39.990 --> 00:11:41.172 I think there's a case of 00:11:41.892 --> 00:11:43.493 some successes and some more challenges. 00:11:43.533 --> 00:11:45.634 If you look at the corporate market, 00:11:46.014 --> 00:11:46.774 company cars, 00:11:46.793 --> 00:11:48.095 particularly salary sacrifice, 00:11:48.154 --> 00:11:49.095 benefit in kind has 00:11:49.635 --> 00:11:50.736 been a game changer you know 00:11:50.756 --> 00:11:53.219 it has driven uh probably 00:11:53.219 --> 00:11:55.120 70 80 of all bevs are going 00:11:55.321 --> 00:11:56.241 going in that in that 00:11:56.302 --> 00:11:57.182 direction because it is 00:11:57.283 --> 00:12:00.044 such a such a no-brainer um 00:12:00.546 --> 00:12:01.285 and I think the other area 00:12:01.306 --> 00:12:02.147 where we need to change 00:12:02.167 --> 00:12:03.467 that is obviously on on the 00:12:03.508 --> 00:12:04.669 retail buyer or the private 00:12:04.710 --> 00:12:06.270 buyer who looks at the the 00:12:06.311 --> 00:12:07.971 price gap between a 00:12:08.273 --> 00:12:09.953 electric car a battery 00:12:09.974 --> 00:12:11.014 electric car and a nice 00:12:11.054 --> 00:12:12.716 vehicle looks at the cost 00:12:12.797 --> 00:12:14.057 of public charging 00:12:14.788 --> 00:12:15.967 particularly if you want to do rapid, 00:12:16.288 --> 00:12:17.288 ultra rapid charging, 00:12:17.308 --> 00:12:18.188 where it's way ahead of the 00:12:18.229 --> 00:12:21.730 cost of diesel or petrol and just says, 00:12:22.090 --> 00:12:22.529 no, no, 00:12:22.549 --> 00:12:23.350 it doesn't really work for me at 00:12:23.370 --> 00:12:23.690 the moment. 00:12:23.730 --> 00:12:23.889 You know, 00:12:23.909 --> 00:12:25.650 you want these people to feel 00:12:25.711 --> 00:12:28.010 like a money-saving expert, Martin Lewis, 00:12:28.051 --> 00:12:29.312 when they choose a car, 00:12:29.351 --> 00:12:30.251 they want to feel a bit 00:12:30.331 --> 00:12:31.912 smug and a bit like, you know, 00:12:32.091 --> 00:12:32.873 look at what I, you know, 00:12:33.133 --> 00:12:33.673 they're the same sort of 00:12:33.692 --> 00:12:34.352 people that go on that 00:12:34.432 --> 00:12:35.993 tariff and tell you when 00:12:36.013 --> 00:12:37.053 they meet you that they're saving, 00:12:37.073 --> 00:12:37.313 you know, 00:12:37.333 --> 00:12:39.094 loads of money on tariff and why 00:12:39.114 --> 00:12:39.714 aren't you doing that? 00:12:40.033 --> 00:12:40.774 That sort of approach, 00:12:40.794 --> 00:12:41.715 you want them to feel clever. 00:12:41.914 --> 00:12:42.254 And, um, 00:12:42.798 --> 00:12:43.759 On the retail side yet, 00:12:43.798 --> 00:12:45.740 there's not enough of that 00:12:45.799 --> 00:12:47.440 picture to be able to 00:12:47.460 --> 00:12:48.480 seduce those people in and 00:12:48.500 --> 00:12:49.380 make them feel like they're 00:12:49.400 --> 00:12:50.441 doing a clever thing. 00:12:50.541 --> 00:12:52.221 I guess there's a bit of, as you say, 00:12:52.701 --> 00:12:54.923 it's kind of logical information. 00:12:54.942 --> 00:12:55.783 In the round two years, 00:12:55.863 --> 00:12:57.043 if people are able to 00:12:57.102 --> 00:12:59.803 access home charging and a reasonable, 00:13:00.244 --> 00:13:01.565 good proportion of people 00:13:01.605 --> 00:13:03.164 with off-street parking driveways, 00:13:03.985 --> 00:13:05.105 if they're understanding 00:13:05.166 --> 00:13:07.787 the differential in cost there, actually, 00:13:07.807 --> 00:13:08.366 if they're doing most of 00:13:08.386 --> 00:13:09.126 their charging at home, 00:13:09.167 --> 00:13:09.927 then actually there is a, 00:13:10.307 --> 00:13:11.847 in terms of fuel, a cost saving there. 00:13:12.625 --> 00:13:13.424 Yeah, absolutely. 00:13:13.725 --> 00:13:15.166 But I think we've probably 00:13:15.206 --> 00:13:16.505 got most of those people, 00:13:19.226 --> 00:13:19.947 unless they've got just a 00:13:19.986 --> 00:13:21.008 real aversion to it or 00:13:21.048 --> 00:13:21.988 they've got slightly 00:13:22.028 --> 00:13:23.408 strange travel habits or 00:13:23.769 --> 00:13:26.269 huge families or five dogs, maybe. 00:13:26.309 --> 00:13:26.970 I don't know. 00:13:27.070 --> 00:13:28.389 But I think we've probably 00:13:28.409 --> 00:13:29.750 got most of those people. 00:13:29.791 --> 00:13:30.311 You're right. 00:13:30.936 --> 00:13:31.096 Yeah. 00:13:31.777 --> 00:13:33.898 So the new Labour government 00:13:34.378 --> 00:13:35.759 has pledged to reinstate 00:13:35.818 --> 00:13:37.419 the 2030 internal 00:13:37.440 --> 00:13:38.921 combustion engine sales ban. 00:13:39.782 --> 00:13:40.942 The actual detail of what 00:13:40.982 --> 00:13:43.464 this will involve is 00:13:43.804 --> 00:13:44.644 limited at the moment. 00:13:44.664 --> 00:13:46.346 And there's some sort of 00:13:46.566 --> 00:13:47.586 commentary in the press as 00:13:47.667 --> 00:13:50.168 to whether this is cars, 00:13:50.489 --> 00:13:52.610 is it like commercial vehicles? 00:13:52.671 --> 00:13:52.931 You know, 00:13:52.951 --> 00:13:55.451 does this include plug in hybrids? 00:13:55.532 --> 00:13:57.113 So be interested to get your 00:13:57.173 --> 00:13:58.073 thoughts on this. 00:13:58.433 --> 00:14:00.456 And actually, you know, 00:14:01.537 --> 00:14:03.638 It turned out when the date 00:14:03.658 --> 00:14:04.798 was rolled back to 2035, 00:14:04.798 --> 00:14:06.500 it didn't actually make a 00:14:06.541 --> 00:14:07.140 lot of difference. 00:14:07.381 --> 00:14:09.143 So I'm wondering if we're 00:14:09.163 --> 00:14:10.563 now returning to the 2030 date, 00:14:10.683 --> 00:14:13.927 it's probably worth for 00:14:14.047 --> 00:14:15.469 some of our listeners 00:14:15.948 --> 00:14:16.750 explaining a little bit 00:14:16.789 --> 00:14:18.850 about what that means and 00:14:18.870 --> 00:14:19.892 then what impact you think 00:14:20.232 --> 00:14:21.354 those changing dates might have. 00:14:22.313 --> 00:14:22.514 Yeah, 00:14:22.534 --> 00:14:25.636 so I think the phase-out can be seen. 00:14:25.657 --> 00:14:26.937 You could argue it's a 00:14:27.058 --> 00:14:28.620 slight red herring in that 00:14:29.298 --> 00:14:31.119 Um, it is not legislation. 00:14:31.359 --> 00:14:32.658 It is not, um, 00:14:32.740 --> 00:14:34.299 forcing anyone to obviously 00:14:34.360 --> 00:14:35.961 it sets a target and aspiration, 00:14:36.000 --> 00:14:36.660 but there's nothing 00:14:36.780 --> 00:14:39.001 imminently today that it, it makes people, 00:14:39.422 --> 00:14:39.982 people do. 00:14:40.702 --> 00:14:43.063 Um, I think it does send a very important, 00:14:43.364 --> 00:14:44.144 uh, sort of, uh, 00:14:44.224 --> 00:14:46.705 PR message or communications message, um, 00:14:47.186 --> 00:14:48.426 an indicator to the market. 00:14:48.546 --> 00:14:50.147 And anecdotally, 00:14:50.187 --> 00:14:51.006 I've definitely had people 00:14:51.047 --> 00:14:52.107 say that when the phase out 00:14:52.148 --> 00:14:53.607 was pushed back, um, 00:14:53.648 --> 00:14:55.369 back end of last year in the autumn. 00:14:55.956 --> 00:14:57.937 it did result in a drop off 00:14:57.957 --> 00:14:58.918 in that retail demand. 00:14:58.937 --> 00:15:00.239 There was certainly a cadre 00:15:00.259 --> 00:15:01.360 of people that thought, 00:15:02.081 --> 00:15:03.341 I've got an extra five years. 00:15:03.361 --> 00:15:04.082 Do you know what? 00:15:04.322 --> 00:15:05.464 I was feeling a little bit nervous. 00:15:05.984 --> 00:15:08.025 I'm not going to worry about it now. 00:15:09.866 --> 00:15:11.067 In terms of Labour's 00:15:11.248 --> 00:15:12.828 strategy of bringing it back, 00:15:14.370 --> 00:15:15.451 we've actually polled our 00:15:15.491 --> 00:15:18.673 members on this and they've 00:15:18.693 --> 00:15:19.975 got a diverse range of opinions. 00:15:19.995 --> 00:15:20.716 I think there's some, 00:15:21.015 --> 00:15:21.856 probably depending on where 00:15:21.876 --> 00:15:22.836 they sit in the market and 00:15:22.856 --> 00:15:23.437 what their share 00:15:24.470 --> 00:15:26.772 of electric car fleet is. 00:15:27.331 --> 00:15:28.753 Some feel that it would be a 00:15:29.113 --> 00:15:31.514 useful statement to inspire 00:15:31.554 --> 00:15:32.215 confidence again, 00:15:32.695 --> 00:15:33.855 that you do need to get on 00:15:33.875 --> 00:15:35.136 with it and make the transition. 00:15:35.996 --> 00:15:37.238 But there's quite a few 00:15:37.278 --> 00:15:39.078 others who feel that this 00:15:39.158 --> 00:15:43.142 flip-flopping between 2030, 2035, 00:15:43.142 --> 00:15:44.423 another change of position 00:15:44.462 --> 00:15:45.462 just adds to that 00:15:45.523 --> 00:15:46.423 uncertainty and that 00:15:46.504 --> 00:15:47.183 feeling that government 00:15:47.224 --> 00:15:49.385 really hasn't got an idea or a plan, 00:15:49.865 --> 00:15:51.366 and it's not being stuck to, and you risk 00:15:51.942 --> 00:15:52.884 doing something that could 00:15:52.923 --> 00:15:54.945 be undone by what the government's doing. 00:15:55.004 --> 00:15:56.304 So that being said, 00:15:56.465 --> 00:15:59.866 I don't think it's a major game changer, 00:16:00.366 --> 00:16:02.067 depending on what Labour does. 00:16:02.187 --> 00:16:03.048 On that topic, obviously, 00:16:03.068 --> 00:16:03.869 it's worth remembering that 00:16:03.889 --> 00:16:06.730 there is a car aspect and a van aspect. 00:16:07.010 --> 00:16:07.591 Yes, indeed. 00:16:07.610 --> 00:16:08.471 And I think Labour's being 00:16:08.532 --> 00:16:12.653 much more noisy about the car side. 00:16:12.673 --> 00:16:14.195 I think the van side, 00:16:15.115 --> 00:16:16.495 I think everybody is a bit 00:16:16.535 --> 00:16:18.716 more concerned about the van transition, 00:16:18.777 --> 00:16:20.317 and probably it's harder to argue 00:16:20.831 --> 00:16:22.052 that the van transition is 00:16:22.111 --> 00:16:25.615 going to plan and that I 00:16:25.634 --> 00:16:26.355 think maybe Labour will be 00:16:26.375 --> 00:16:27.836 a little bit more cautious 00:16:27.876 --> 00:16:29.778 about moving the van 00:16:29.818 --> 00:16:30.679 transition because the van 00:16:30.700 --> 00:16:34.143 market really is stuck in the doldrums. 00:16:34.383 --> 00:16:35.384 Let's dig into that a little 00:16:35.423 --> 00:16:37.566 bit because the majority of 00:16:37.586 --> 00:16:39.407 vans are commercial vehicles, 00:16:39.427 --> 00:16:40.748 they're used for commercial purposes. 00:16:42.129 --> 00:16:44.272 And if you live in or spend 00:16:44.292 --> 00:16:45.812 time in a major city, you will see 00:16:46.195 --> 00:16:47.395 an increase in electric vans 00:16:47.436 --> 00:16:49.357 being run by major delivery 00:16:49.378 --> 00:16:50.077 firms and so on. 00:16:50.518 --> 00:16:54.380 But I suppose that is not a 00:16:54.501 --> 00:16:55.942 complete picture of the fleet, is it? 00:16:56.003 --> 00:16:57.283 Because there's an awful lot 00:16:57.323 --> 00:16:58.764 of vans which are kind of 00:16:58.865 --> 00:17:01.246 single businesses that just 00:17:01.287 --> 00:17:02.207 have the one vehicle. 00:17:02.888 --> 00:17:04.910 So how does that affect the 00:17:04.930 --> 00:17:06.530 dynamic of that industry? 00:17:07.771 --> 00:17:09.413 So to give you the macro, 00:17:09.432 --> 00:17:11.054 I'll give you the overall 00:17:11.414 --> 00:17:12.234 view of what's happening first. 00:17:12.275 --> 00:17:14.497 And that is that the the van transition is 00:17:15.915 --> 00:17:17.836 is really struggling. 00:17:17.896 --> 00:17:18.797 So we're actually having 00:17:18.977 --> 00:17:24.720 fewer electric fan 00:17:24.759 --> 00:17:25.539 registrations as a 00:17:25.579 --> 00:17:26.621 percentage of all 00:17:26.661 --> 00:17:27.840 registrations this year 00:17:28.382 --> 00:17:29.422 compared to last year. 00:17:30.301 --> 00:17:32.604 In terms of the shape, I think, yes, 00:17:32.644 --> 00:17:34.104 you had some early adopters, 00:17:34.124 --> 00:17:35.265 particularly people in 00:17:36.065 --> 00:17:37.286 organisations or firms in 00:17:37.506 --> 00:17:38.326 sort of big cities, 00:17:38.385 --> 00:17:40.186 maybe you had zero emission zones or 00:17:40.817 --> 00:17:42.136 or uh other sort of 00:17:42.297 --> 00:17:44.157 restrictions um but the 00:17:44.198 --> 00:17:44.978 vast majority of those 00:17:45.018 --> 00:17:45.637 electric vans have been 00:17:45.657 --> 00:17:47.038 going to the big blue chip 00:17:47.078 --> 00:17:49.239 fleets who are fleets that 00:17:49.318 --> 00:17:51.220 actually probably put a bit 00:17:51.279 --> 00:17:53.279 more of a premium on doing 00:17:53.319 --> 00:17:54.339 the right thing they might 00:17:54.380 --> 00:17:56.181 have a certain esg strategy 00:17:56.320 --> 00:17:57.701 or a carbon reduction plan 00:17:58.221 --> 00:17:59.201 or just really want to be 00:17:59.281 --> 00:18:00.281 seen to be doing the right 00:18:00.342 --> 00:18:01.781 thing and they're able to 00:18:02.061 --> 00:18:03.222 quite often make decisions 00:18:03.383 --> 00:18:04.782 based on that rather than 00:18:05.540 --> 00:18:06.781 know what most fleets will 00:18:06.801 --> 00:18:08.221 look at which is pure cost 00:18:08.281 --> 00:18:09.803 of ownership yeah how much 00:18:09.823 --> 00:18:10.863 is this van going to cost 00:18:10.883 --> 00:18:11.784 me this electric van 00:18:11.844 --> 00:18:14.105 compared to a a diesel van 00:18:14.704 --> 00:18:16.086 can it do the same things 00:18:16.846 --> 00:18:17.605 and you know will my 00:18:17.625 --> 00:18:18.787 drivers accept it will it 00:18:18.846 --> 00:18:20.007 will it require too many 00:18:20.047 --> 00:18:21.208 compromises and 00:18:21.228 --> 00:18:22.167 unfortunately on all three 00:18:22.188 --> 00:18:23.949 of those areas there's a 00:18:24.009 --> 00:18:25.490 significant portion of the 00:18:25.650 --> 00:18:27.150 of the standard van fleet 00:18:27.770 --> 00:18:29.151 um that are finding issues 00:18:29.530 --> 00:18:30.531 they're finding issues with 00:18:30.571 --> 00:18:32.452 the cost of of the vans 00:18:32.512 --> 00:18:33.432 being too expensive 00:18:34.300 --> 00:18:35.201 finding issues particularly 00:18:35.221 --> 00:18:35.761 around charging 00:18:35.801 --> 00:18:36.721 infrastructure where if you 00:18:36.741 --> 00:18:37.663 think about a lot of a lot 00:18:37.682 --> 00:18:39.903 of van drivers take their 00:18:39.942 --> 00:18:40.983 fans home with the evening 00:18:41.523 --> 00:18:42.865 um quite a few of them 00:18:42.944 --> 00:18:44.204 don't have off-street 00:18:44.224 --> 00:18:45.746 parking and just 00:18:46.086 --> 00:18:47.507 accessibility of vans to a 00:18:47.547 --> 00:18:48.787 lot of charge points a they 00:18:48.807 --> 00:18:50.367 can't fit them in and quite 00:18:50.387 --> 00:18:51.127 often you get negative 00:18:51.167 --> 00:18:53.068 responses from local uh 00:18:53.709 --> 00:18:55.029 residents if they see vans 00:18:55.089 --> 00:18:56.009 parked in what they assume 00:18:56.049 --> 00:18:56.790 is like is it like a 00:18:56.810 --> 00:18:58.451 personal private charge 00:18:58.490 --> 00:18:59.892 point there's other issues 00:19:00.031 --> 00:19:01.212 such as bookability again 00:19:01.252 --> 00:19:02.133 if you can imagine if you're a 00:19:02.708 --> 00:19:04.809 van fleet operator and 00:19:04.829 --> 00:19:05.789 you've got a schedule of 00:19:06.029 --> 00:19:08.071 you know seven or eight uh 00:19:08.152 --> 00:19:09.393 appointments that day where 00:19:09.413 --> 00:19:10.874 you might be you know I'm 00:19:10.913 --> 00:19:12.734 servicing a boiler or or 00:19:12.815 --> 00:19:14.955 dropping stuff off um the 00:19:14.976 --> 00:19:16.557 ability to book and plan 00:19:16.596 --> 00:19:17.897 your charging around that 00:19:17.998 --> 00:19:19.779 is is essential um and 00:19:19.819 --> 00:19:20.599 there's nothing a driver 00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:21.601 hates worse than having to 00:19:21.621 --> 00:19:23.521 sort of you know clock on 00:19:23.622 --> 00:19:24.942 early or or finish late 00:19:24.962 --> 00:19:25.784 because something's gonna 00:19:25.923 --> 00:19:27.125 go right there and then 00:19:27.224 --> 00:19:29.006 finally it's the the issue of um 00:19:29.587 --> 00:19:30.769 what was called weight delegations, 00:19:30.788 --> 00:19:31.829 which is where because of 00:19:31.849 --> 00:19:32.829 the weight of the battery 00:19:33.310 --> 00:19:34.250 for those heavy duty, 00:19:34.310 --> 00:19:35.511 large sort of three ton, 00:19:37.093 --> 00:19:38.134 three ton above vans, 00:19:38.153 --> 00:19:39.394 the government gave a 00:19:39.434 --> 00:19:40.355 special delegation that 00:19:40.375 --> 00:19:41.016 they could actually be 00:19:41.036 --> 00:19:42.718 driven by Joe Public 00:19:42.897 --> 00:19:43.657 without a commercial 00:19:43.678 --> 00:19:45.980 vehicle license up to 4.25 tons, 00:19:46.519 --> 00:19:47.101 which is great. 00:19:47.401 --> 00:19:48.882 But what they didn't do is 00:19:48.942 --> 00:19:50.942 change the operator licensing regime, 00:19:50.962 --> 00:19:51.743 which means that people 00:19:51.784 --> 00:19:52.545 driving one of those 00:19:52.585 --> 00:19:54.605 heavier electric vans still 00:19:54.625 --> 00:19:56.126 have to abide by certain 00:19:57.587 --> 00:19:58.548 heavy goods vehicle 00:19:59.025 --> 00:19:59.905 operating regime. 00:19:59.925 --> 00:20:02.248 So they have to have an MOT once a year, 00:20:02.268 --> 00:20:03.508 and they have to even have 00:20:03.548 --> 00:20:04.368 restrictions on how long 00:20:04.388 --> 00:20:05.109 they can drive them. 00:20:05.670 --> 00:20:07.892 Which again, for an average van, 00:20:07.932 --> 00:20:09.613 it just doesn't make sense. 00:20:09.633 --> 00:20:10.534 Yeah, that makes sense. 00:20:11.221 --> 00:20:11.740 So this is, 00:20:11.760 --> 00:20:12.602 you're kind of linking to my 00:20:12.622 --> 00:20:13.122 next question, 00:20:13.182 --> 00:20:14.663 which is about electric 00:20:14.682 --> 00:20:15.523 vehicle infrastructure. 00:20:15.604 --> 00:20:16.903 So having sufficient 00:20:16.923 --> 00:20:18.144 reliable public EV 00:20:18.184 --> 00:20:19.266 infrastructure is vital 00:20:19.306 --> 00:20:20.226 support to support the 00:20:20.266 --> 00:20:21.606 growth of electric vehicles. 00:20:22.507 --> 00:20:23.807 Maybe if you take a little 00:20:23.827 --> 00:20:24.848 bit of a step back, 00:20:25.749 --> 00:20:26.490 and I know you've got some 00:20:26.910 --> 00:20:28.651 personal international experience here, 00:20:28.891 --> 00:20:31.732 how do you think we're doing in the UK? 00:20:31.952 --> 00:20:33.834 I actually, this is a very personal issue, 00:20:33.894 --> 00:20:34.034 right? 00:20:34.054 --> 00:20:35.855 So this, from my experience, 00:20:36.376 --> 00:20:37.897 This can depend on your last 00:20:38.117 --> 00:20:39.378 motorway journey or your 00:20:39.419 --> 00:20:41.058 last holiday and what happened to you. 00:20:41.078 --> 00:20:44.681 But I actually feel quite 00:20:44.721 --> 00:20:45.321 positive about this. 00:20:45.682 --> 00:20:46.521 Looking at the numbers, 00:20:46.741 --> 00:20:49.223 I think we've done a great job of, 00:20:49.364 --> 00:20:51.365 and the chargement 00:20:51.404 --> 00:20:52.345 operators are doing a great 00:20:52.404 --> 00:20:53.665 job of putting their money 00:20:54.266 --> 00:20:55.186 out there in advance, 00:20:55.346 --> 00:20:57.728 trying to maintain the 00:20:57.768 --> 00:20:58.508 speed of rollout of 00:20:58.548 --> 00:21:00.048 infrastructure with the 00:21:00.128 --> 00:21:01.109 registrations growth. 00:21:01.973 --> 00:21:03.515 I think we're at about 00:21:03.515 --> 00:21:04.494 65,000 charge points now. 00:21:04.515 --> 00:21:07.155 We added 18,000 charge points last year. 00:21:08.797 --> 00:21:10.157 And personally, 00:21:10.178 --> 00:21:11.198 just from my travels up and 00:21:11.218 --> 00:21:11.857 down the motorways, 00:21:11.917 --> 00:21:13.618 I used to have sort of no-go zones like, 00:21:13.638 --> 00:21:13.858 you know, 00:21:13.878 --> 00:21:18.141 the M1 or the M6 north of Birmingham or, 00:21:18.401 --> 00:21:18.661 you know, 00:21:18.921 --> 00:21:21.201 latter edges of the roads down 00:21:21.241 --> 00:21:22.042 to Devon and Cornwall. 00:21:22.282 --> 00:21:24.544 I'm finding it now increasingly easy, 00:21:24.923 --> 00:21:25.784 almost to the stage where I 00:21:25.824 --> 00:21:26.964 don't have to plan my route 00:21:27.605 --> 00:21:28.226 on those trips. 00:21:28.246 --> 00:21:29.885 Same when I go abroad. 00:21:29.945 --> 00:21:31.507 Again, most of my experience is in 00:21:32.509 --> 00:21:35.030 is in sort of France and Corsica. 00:21:35.590 --> 00:21:37.731 I've had two vacations and 00:21:37.771 --> 00:21:39.472 lots of driving and it was 00:21:39.553 --> 00:21:40.374 absolutely fine. 00:21:40.394 --> 00:21:42.433 But I do appreciate that can vary. 00:21:42.454 --> 00:21:43.134 You know, you can have, 00:21:43.855 --> 00:21:44.494 particularly on bank 00:21:44.515 --> 00:21:47.557 holidays and peak travel periods, 00:21:48.576 --> 00:21:49.397 you can have issues. 00:21:49.857 --> 00:21:51.498 And obviously when your car is packed with, 00:21:51.919 --> 00:21:52.159 you know, 00:21:53.499 --> 00:21:54.480 as mine has been in the past 00:21:54.500 --> 00:21:55.400 with all your extended 00:21:55.460 --> 00:21:57.201 family and a roof box and 00:21:57.221 --> 00:21:58.060 you're on a deadline, 00:21:58.781 --> 00:21:59.561 there can be stresses. 00:21:59.622 --> 00:22:01.182 But I think it is getting... 00:22:02.078 --> 00:22:02.980 getting better and probably 00:22:03.039 --> 00:22:04.361 better than a lot of people 00:22:05.240 --> 00:22:06.602 um expected I remember 00:22:06.622 --> 00:22:08.022 having a chat with a charge 00:22:08.042 --> 00:22:09.104 point operator a couple of 00:22:09.124 --> 00:22:10.124 probably about two years 00:22:10.163 --> 00:22:11.605 ago who told me things are 00:22:11.625 --> 00:22:12.445 going to get worse before 00:22:12.465 --> 00:22:14.307 they got better and um I 00:22:14.326 --> 00:22:14.866 haven't caught up with him 00:22:14.906 --> 00:22:15.788 recently but actually I 00:22:15.807 --> 00:22:16.749 don't think they got worse 00:22:16.868 --> 00:22:18.269 I think they've continued 00:22:18.630 --> 00:22:20.171 continued to get better the 00:22:20.270 --> 00:22:21.612 one one area I would say 00:22:21.652 --> 00:22:23.613 probably where I'm a little 00:22:23.653 --> 00:22:25.875 bit concerned is in the 00:22:25.914 --> 00:22:26.694 breakdown of public 00:22:26.714 --> 00:22:27.415 charging because public 00:22:27.455 --> 00:22:28.896 charging can be very very 00:22:28.936 --> 00:22:30.238 different you can have it 00:22:30.258 --> 00:22:30.917 varies from your 00:22:32.155 --> 00:22:32.916 ultra fast. 00:22:33.017 --> 00:22:34.178 I honestly, you know, 00:22:34.178 --> 00:22:36.318 350 kilowatt charger that 00:22:36.338 --> 00:22:38.480 will charge your car from 20% to 80% in, 00:22:38.641 --> 00:22:41.442 in, you know, 25, 30 minutes. 00:22:42.222 --> 00:22:43.324 Um, but you'll pay for it. 00:22:44.224 --> 00:22:45.746 Uh, and there's lots of those. 00:22:45.766 --> 00:22:46.586 I mean, most of the, 00:22:46.846 --> 00:22:47.967 there's a huge big rollout 00:22:47.987 --> 00:22:48.768 of those there that if you 00:22:48.788 --> 00:22:49.989 like the sexier charge points, 00:22:50.009 --> 00:22:50.709 they're probably also the 00:22:50.788 --> 00:22:51.769 ones that earn more money 00:22:51.789 --> 00:22:54.571 and maybe the easier ones to get, um, 00:22:54.612 --> 00:22:56.452 planning permission and to 00:22:56.472 --> 00:22:58.074 put in right the way down 00:22:58.134 --> 00:22:59.214 to some of the smaller, um, 00:23:01.448 --> 00:23:02.888 slow or sort of slower fast 00:23:02.929 --> 00:23:04.288 chargers that are mainly 00:23:04.328 --> 00:23:05.148 giving that sort of 7 00:23:05.148 --> 00:23:06.990 kilowatt 22 kilowatt and 00:23:07.029 --> 00:23:07.769 they're the sort of ones 00:23:07.809 --> 00:23:08.851 that people will rely on 00:23:08.951 --> 00:23:10.030 day to day they're the sort 00:23:10.050 --> 00:23:11.392 of charge points that your 00:23:11.751 --> 00:23:13.051 van driver taking their van 00:23:13.092 --> 00:23:16.373 home for the evening or 00:23:16.413 --> 00:23:17.213 someone traveling out to 00:23:17.233 --> 00:23:18.413 the country somewhere will 00:23:18.433 --> 00:23:19.534 rely on to do a maybe an 00:23:19.614 --> 00:23:21.835 overnight charge or just 00:23:21.894 --> 00:23:22.836 just top up for a couple of 00:23:22.875 --> 00:23:23.955 hours and the rollout of 00:23:23.996 --> 00:23:26.876 those is slower and it also is a bit more 00:23:27.423 --> 00:23:28.364 complicated because quite 00:23:28.403 --> 00:23:30.305 often it involves local authorities. 00:23:30.345 --> 00:23:30.484 I mean, 00:23:30.545 --> 00:23:32.346 we're in a scenario where we've got 00:23:32.365 --> 00:23:35.087 this much publicized Levi fund, um, 00:23:35.147 --> 00:23:36.167 which has got a big pot of 00:23:36.229 --> 00:23:37.449 money from government to, 00:23:37.469 --> 00:23:39.109 to sort of invest with 00:23:39.150 --> 00:23:39.951 local authorities in 00:23:39.971 --> 00:23:42.132 rolling out public infrastructure and, 00:23:42.251 --> 00:23:43.292 you know, Kel surprise. 00:23:44.073 --> 00:23:45.133 when local authorities knew 00:23:45.153 --> 00:23:46.374 that this money was available, 00:23:46.413 --> 00:23:47.233 they stopped any other 00:23:47.273 --> 00:23:48.394 plans they had and waited 00:23:48.453 --> 00:23:51.035 for this money to trickle through. 00:23:51.154 --> 00:23:51.934 It's beginning to trickle 00:23:51.954 --> 00:23:52.934 through and we thought 00:23:53.075 --> 00:23:53.855 there was a green light, 00:23:53.875 --> 00:23:54.855 but then I've just heard 00:23:54.895 --> 00:23:55.675 recently that there may be 00:23:55.695 --> 00:23:56.757 some legal concerns as 00:23:56.777 --> 00:23:58.416 there always are with any 00:23:58.497 --> 00:23:59.957 big expensive procurement 00:24:00.417 --> 00:24:02.498 programme and that's holding things up. 00:24:02.557 --> 00:24:06.098 So again, that's a concern, as I just said, 00:24:06.638 --> 00:24:07.779 that that bit is one bit we 00:24:07.839 --> 00:24:09.240 really do need to accelerate. 00:24:09.929 --> 00:24:10.590 Yeah, no, I know. 00:24:10.611 --> 00:24:11.934 I have heard of these legal 00:24:11.954 --> 00:24:13.019 concerns and indeed some 00:24:13.098 --> 00:24:14.001 colleagues have been trying 00:24:14.021 --> 00:24:15.445 to work through that. 00:24:15.546 --> 00:24:17.211 So, yeah, it's a challenge. 00:24:17.934 --> 00:24:19.276 Yeah, just personally, 00:24:19.375 --> 00:24:21.395 I think some of the things, you know, 00:24:21.556 --> 00:24:22.436 it's great that the 00:24:22.477 --> 00:24:23.057 charging network is 00:24:23.096 --> 00:24:23.997 improving and that the 00:24:24.017 --> 00:24:24.998 reliability is improving. 00:24:25.238 --> 00:24:25.998 But there are some joined up 00:24:26.018 --> 00:24:26.577 things that aren't 00:24:26.617 --> 00:24:27.979 necessarily that thought through. 00:24:28.479 --> 00:24:29.699 I stopped to charge at a 00:24:29.759 --> 00:24:30.720 rapid charging station that 00:24:30.759 --> 00:24:31.619 was a park and ride, 00:24:32.119 --> 00:24:33.560 which had a toilet 00:24:33.641 --> 00:24:34.980 facilities and it was all excellent. 00:24:35.000 --> 00:24:36.261 Apart from it was a Sunday, 00:24:36.321 --> 00:24:37.642 so there were no park and ride facilities, 00:24:37.701 --> 00:24:39.923 so the toilets weren't available. 00:24:40.123 --> 00:24:40.824 So just, you know, 00:24:40.943 --> 00:24:42.523 simple things about thinking through, 00:24:42.903 --> 00:24:43.163 you know, 00:24:43.223 --> 00:24:45.265 these are 24-7 facilities and 00:24:45.285 --> 00:24:46.085 therefore they need to be 00:24:46.746 --> 00:24:47.326 designed that way. 00:24:48.191 --> 00:24:49.211 So we're coming towards the end, 00:24:49.231 --> 00:24:50.011 but I've got a couple of 00:24:50.212 --> 00:24:51.614 more questions I'd like to squeeze in. 00:24:52.054 --> 00:24:52.894 The next one, 00:24:53.615 --> 00:24:55.256 be interested to see your 00:24:55.276 --> 00:24:55.856 thoughts on this. 00:24:55.936 --> 00:24:57.758 So there's been a rise in 00:24:58.259 --> 00:24:59.179 Chinese manufacturers, 00:24:59.199 --> 00:25:00.059 which are adding 00:25:00.200 --> 00:25:01.560 competition to more 00:25:01.580 --> 00:25:02.602 established manufacturers 00:25:02.622 --> 00:25:04.343 and also offering a breadth 00:25:04.423 --> 00:25:05.683 of different vehicles. 00:25:06.124 --> 00:25:07.885 And this has led to both in Europe, 00:25:08.526 --> 00:25:10.407 mainland Europe, the European Commission, 00:25:10.428 --> 00:25:11.407 and also in the United 00:25:11.448 --> 00:25:13.930 States in terms of high import tariffs. 00:25:16.234 --> 00:25:17.776 Is this beneficial to the market? 00:25:17.996 --> 00:25:19.116 I think we've in the UK, 00:25:19.136 --> 00:25:19.997 we've got a bit of a sort 00:25:20.017 --> 00:25:22.117 of a status quo type 00:25:22.238 --> 00:25:22.898 approach at the moment, 00:25:23.019 --> 00:25:24.559 but it's kind of subject to change. 00:25:24.579 --> 00:25:25.779 What are your thoughts on this? 00:25:29.962 --> 00:25:31.884 I think it's a tricky one. 00:25:31.943 --> 00:25:34.204 On the plus side, there are some, you know, 00:25:34.345 --> 00:25:35.445 Chinese manufacturers have 00:25:35.486 --> 00:25:38.926 leapfrogged European and US 00:25:38.968 --> 00:25:40.028 manufacturers in terms of 00:25:40.407 --> 00:25:41.068 they were probably way 00:25:41.108 --> 00:25:41.828 behind in terms of 00:25:41.868 --> 00:25:43.349 combustion engine technology. 00:25:43.997 --> 00:25:45.137 so they haven't tried to 00:25:45.178 --> 00:25:45.858 compete on that level 00:25:45.878 --> 00:25:46.618 they've leapfrogged and 00:25:46.638 --> 00:25:47.539 they are they are producing 00:25:47.579 --> 00:25:49.561 some fantastically um uh 00:25:50.623 --> 00:25:51.943 fantastic performance very 00:25:51.983 --> 00:25:53.204 high quality electric 00:25:53.244 --> 00:25:54.306 vehicles you know for the 00:25:54.346 --> 00:25:55.385 most part these these 00:25:55.405 --> 00:25:56.686 vehicles are just as much 00:25:56.727 --> 00:25:58.469 if not better quality than 00:25:58.528 --> 00:26:00.150 some of their um european 00:26:00.190 --> 00:26:02.832 american counterparts and 00:26:02.852 --> 00:26:04.213 they can do it much cheaper 00:26:04.253 --> 00:26:07.695 so you know you can't argue 00:26:07.715 --> 00:26:08.457 against the fact that we 00:26:08.517 --> 00:26:09.617 need more affordable 00:26:10.240 --> 00:26:11.141 um electric vehicles 00:26:11.161 --> 00:26:11.881 particularly at certain 00:26:11.921 --> 00:26:12.682 price points you know that 00:26:12.761 --> 00:26:14.201 entry level you know sort 00:26:14.221 --> 00:26:15.982 of urban run around small 00:26:16.243 --> 00:26:17.503 car the ones that a lot of 00:26:17.544 --> 00:26:18.525 other manufacturers can't 00:26:18.565 --> 00:26:19.505 afford to make because they 00:26:19.525 --> 00:26:21.807 can't make any profit um we 00:26:21.846 --> 00:26:22.987 need those cars in in the 00:26:23.107 --> 00:26:24.788 uk desperately so on the 00:26:24.848 --> 00:26:25.788 one hand I think that's 00:26:25.888 --> 00:26:29.250 good we also need a uh I 00:26:29.270 --> 00:26:30.392 think everyone wants a 00:26:30.432 --> 00:26:31.972 domestic uk automotive 00:26:32.012 --> 00:26:33.192 industry and supply chain 00:26:33.232 --> 00:26:34.534 to survive we want breadth 00:26:34.574 --> 00:26:37.415 of choice um and tariffs 00:26:37.476 --> 00:26:38.856 are never good for for um 00:26:39.837 --> 00:26:41.218 for anybody, any market. 00:26:41.258 --> 00:26:42.999 So I guess I want my cake and eat it. 00:26:43.298 --> 00:26:44.378 I want the Chinese product, 00:26:44.798 --> 00:26:46.358 but I want to look after 00:26:46.880 --> 00:26:47.980 our domestic market and 00:26:48.099 --> 00:26:50.079 have a balanced approach. 00:26:50.460 --> 00:26:51.000 Yeah, yeah. 00:26:51.661 --> 00:26:51.881 Great. 00:26:52.121 --> 00:26:53.780 Well, I've got one last question for you. 00:26:54.580 --> 00:26:55.040 And this is, 00:26:56.162 --> 00:26:57.501 if you can encourage the new 00:26:57.561 --> 00:26:58.701 incoming government to do 00:26:58.882 --> 00:27:00.583 one thing to improve 00:27:00.663 --> 00:27:01.663 electric vehicle take-up, 00:27:02.383 --> 00:27:04.343 what would it be? 00:27:04.363 --> 00:27:06.443 So the big one for me 00:27:06.993 --> 00:27:09.655 We've talked about the phase-out target, 00:27:09.675 --> 00:27:10.695 so I said that's a bit of a red herring, 00:27:10.715 --> 00:27:11.497 and that's a bit of a red 00:27:11.537 --> 00:27:12.817 herring because we have 00:27:12.857 --> 00:27:13.758 this thing called the zero 00:27:13.798 --> 00:27:14.939 emission vehicle mandate, 00:27:15.098 --> 00:27:17.319 which is a real sort of UK 00:27:17.400 --> 00:27:18.401 first here in terms of 00:27:19.281 --> 00:27:20.803 policy that the government introduced. 00:27:20.823 --> 00:27:22.343 It's enshrined in legislation, 00:27:22.903 --> 00:27:24.164 and this mandate sets 00:27:24.265 --> 00:27:26.506 targets for manufacturers 00:27:26.546 --> 00:27:28.366 who bring vehicles into the UK, 00:27:28.686 --> 00:27:29.988 the proportion of zero 00:27:30.228 --> 00:27:31.469 emission vehicles they sell 00:27:31.528 --> 00:27:32.990 from now to 2030, so it rises from 00:27:32.990 --> 00:27:36.707 22% of cars need to be zero 00:27:36.727 --> 00:27:37.867 emission this year, 00:27:37.867 --> 00:27:40.530 10% of vans that rises to 00:27:40.530 --> 00:27:44.594 80% and 70% by 2030. 00:27:44.594 --> 00:27:45.454 And it's having a massive 00:27:45.494 --> 00:27:46.996 impact on the market in 00:27:47.036 --> 00:27:48.938 terms of OEM strategies, 00:27:49.137 --> 00:27:50.739 in terms of vehicles that 00:27:50.858 --> 00:27:52.381 fleets and they're being 00:27:52.441 --> 00:27:53.801 offered the level of discounting. 00:27:54.883 --> 00:27:56.064 It's having enormous effect 00:27:56.364 --> 00:27:57.565 on the whole market. 00:27:57.605 --> 00:27:59.926 It's a brand new way of operating. 00:27:59.946 --> 00:28:02.068 And I would say to the government, 00:28:02.128 --> 00:28:03.130 you need to review 00:28:04.205 --> 00:28:04.967 the impact of this. 00:28:04.987 --> 00:28:05.747 You need to sit down and 00:28:05.767 --> 00:28:07.567 just assess what sort of 00:28:07.607 --> 00:28:10.189 impact it's having on the market. 00:28:10.489 --> 00:28:11.249 And I think that will raise 00:28:11.288 --> 00:28:12.809 a few concerns to them, as I just said. 00:28:13.390 --> 00:28:14.451 It will raise concerns 00:28:14.510 --> 00:28:15.911 around the fact that the 00:28:15.951 --> 00:28:17.172 retail market isn't really 00:28:17.531 --> 00:28:18.412 working properly at the moment. 00:28:18.432 --> 00:28:19.292 We need to address that. 00:28:19.873 --> 00:28:21.314 It will raise concerns, as it does, 00:28:22.094 --> 00:28:25.736 about the van market and the used market. 00:28:25.955 --> 00:28:26.596 And it will also raise 00:28:26.635 --> 00:28:28.576 concerns around shared mobility, 00:28:28.656 --> 00:28:29.616 where a big part of that 00:28:29.636 --> 00:28:31.897 ZEV mandate is a special 00:28:31.958 --> 00:28:33.118 credit to incentivise 00:28:33.680 --> 00:28:35.000 vehicles going to shared use 00:28:35.200 --> 00:28:36.800 car club vehicles. 00:28:37.161 --> 00:28:39.800 Car club market is too small in the UK. 00:28:40.181 --> 00:28:41.221 So that isn't having an impact. 00:28:41.261 --> 00:28:43.132 There's probably, I don't know, 6,000, 00:28:43.132 --> 00:28:43.721 7,000 car clubs. 00:28:43.862 --> 00:28:44.461 You've probably got more 00:28:44.501 --> 00:28:46.061 market figure than me. 00:28:46.442 --> 00:28:48.323 But we've got 250,000 other 00:28:48.383 --> 00:28:49.502 shared use vehicles that 00:28:49.522 --> 00:28:51.663 are called rental vehicles, car rental. 00:28:52.044 --> 00:28:53.084 And we think they could 00:28:53.183 --> 00:28:55.163 really bring electric 00:28:55.203 --> 00:28:56.404 vehicles to the masses, 00:28:56.644 --> 00:28:57.585 really democratise it if 00:28:57.625 --> 00:28:58.964 they had access to the same credits, 00:28:59.025 --> 00:29:00.224 because at the moment, 00:29:00.244 --> 00:29:01.445 the sums don't add up for 00:29:01.465 --> 00:29:02.145 the rental sector. 00:29:02.185 --> 00:29:03.566 So I'd say review it 00:29:04.106 --> 00:29:04.847 and then you're gonna spot 00:29:04.887 --> 00:29:05.709 these few things that you 00:29:05.749 --> 00:29:07.171 need to tweak with incentives, 00:29:07.230 --> 00:29:09.192 with grants, with regulation, 00:29:09.794 --> 00:29:11.316 and it can all be done very quickly. 00:29:11.859 --> 00:29:13.380 Yeah, so that's a good summary. 00:29:13.400 --> 00:29:14.980 So effectively understand 00:29:15.280 --> 00:29:16.340 the current situation, 00:29:16.421 --> 00:29:18.280 but actually with a few tweaks, 00:29:18.381 --> 00:29:19.622 the market could be made to 00:29:19.682 --> 00:29:21.281 function better with 00:29:21.301 --> 00:29:22.501 benefits on both sides. 00:29:23.362 --> 00:29:23.642 Toby, 00:29:23.662 --> 00:29:25.563 that's been really great talking to 00:29:25.583 --> 00:29:25.942 you today. 00:29:26.103 --> 00:29:27.262 And thanks very much for 00:29:27.423 --> 00:29:28.363 sparing some time to 00:29:28.403 --> 00:29:30.463 discuss your insights. 00:29:30.523 --> 00:29:32.203 Also, thanks to our audience for joining. 00:29:32.763 --> 00:29:33.845 Toby, before we close, 00:29:33.904 --> 00:29:34.845 I wondered if you'd like to 00:29:34.884 --> 00:29:35.984 tell us a little bit about 00:29:36.365 --> 00:29:37.545 your Road to Zero report 00:29:37.565 --> 00:29:38.486 you've recently published, 00:29:39.006 --> 00:29:40.445 which our viewers might be interested in. 00:29:40.983 --> 00:29:41.243 Yes. 00:29:41.765 --> 00:29:42.684 So you've probably heard me 00:29:42.865 --> 00:29:45.527 quite a few stats today about the market. 00:29:46.748 --> 00:29:48.250 And there are these stats 00:29:48.490 --> 00:29:49.851 and dozens and dozens of 00:29:49.911 --> 00:29:51.412 others in our Road to Zero 00:29:51.531 --> 00:29:52.292 report card that we 00:29:52.353 --> 00:29:54.413 published the 2024 edition 00:29:54.493 --> 00:29:55.894 of a couple of weeks ago. 00:29:55.914 --> 00:29:57.957 This is our sixth version of 00:29:57.997 --> 00:29:58.717 that report now. 00:29:59.897 --> 00:30:01.259 And we use it basically to 00:30:01.359 --> 00:30:04.041 track that journey to zero emissions. 00:30:04.082 --> 00:30:06.303 So we look at all aspects of the market, 00:30:06.383 --> 00:30:07.824 cars, vans, trucks, 00:30:08.065 --> 00:30:09.705 whether it's business use, 00:30:10.664 --> 00:30:13.248 rental, retail and private use, 00:30:13.288 --> 00:30:14.950 the used market, the ZEV mandate. 00:30:15.269 --> 00:30:16.010 If you want to know what's 00:30:16.050 --> 00:30:17.951 going on in road transport 00:30:17.971 --> 00:30:18.772 decarbonisation, 00:30:18.873 --> 00:30:21.336 just use your phone or your tablet, 00:30:21.875 --> 00:30:23.116 use that QR code. 00:30:23.817 --> 00:30:24.979 And it's a really accessible 00:30:25.700 --> 00:30:26.721 piece of web research you 00:30:26.740 --> 00:30:27.461 can scroll through. 00:30:27.481 --> 00:30:29.423 No big downloads or anything. 00:30:29.624 --> 00:30:30.104 And yeah, 00:30:30.263 --> 00:30:31.405 please take a look and let us 00:30:31.425 --> 00:30:31.826 know what you think. 00:30:32.557 --> 00:30:32.717 Great. 00:30:32.757 --> 00:30:33.477 Thanks very much, Toby. 00:30:34.038 --> 00:30:35.337 So we have further sessions 00:30:35.417 --> 00:30:36.337 planned for the coming 00:30:36.377 --> 00:30:38.679 weeks on topics including economic policy, 00:30:38.798 --> 00:30:39.960 transport policy and more. 00:30:40.440 --> 00:30:41.500 If you haven't signed up to those, 00:30:41.839 --> 00:30:43.500 please do visit our website. 00:30:44.201 --> 00:30:44.961 The next session will be 00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:47.301 taking place next Tuesday at 10.30am. 00:30:47.961 --> 00:30:49.423 The topic is economic policy 00:30:49.502 --> 00:30:50.143 and the government's 00:30:50.323 --> 00:30:51.703 priorities for regional and 00:30:51.723 --> 00:30:52.284 national growth. 00:30:53.104 --> 00:30:54.724 My colleague Josh Stott from 00:30:54.884 --> 00:30:55.884 Steer Economic Development 00:30:55.924 --> 00:30:58.625 will be speaking to Claire Haywood, MBE, 00:30:59.335 --> 00:31:00.976 She's the chair of NP11, 00:31:01.195 --> 00:31:02.115 which is an organisation 00:31:02.215 --> 00:31:03.537 focused on driving economic 00:31:03.596 --> 00:31:04.616 prosperity in the north. 00:31:05.176 --> 00:31:06.337 She's also the chair of the 00:31:06.478 --> 00:31:07.657 Cheshire and Warrington 00:31:07.979 --> 00:31:09.159 Local Economic Partnership. 00:31:10.118 --> 00:31:12.059 With that, it's a goodbye from Tony and I, 00:31:12.380 --> 00:31:14.060 Toby and I. Thanks very much all.